The Bad Blood Between Javier Vazquez and Ozzie Guillen
by gondeee
on Dec 2, 2008 11:06 PM EST
in Trade News
18 comments
From Yahoo's Tim Brown on the proposed deal:
Javier Vazquez has pitched himself out of another uniform, and so at 32 years old it appears he’ll pick up in Atlanta where he left off in places such as New York and Chicago, as a stuff guy who might never live up to his stuff.
Last we saw Vazquez, Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen was daring him to show up in a big game, just one, and Vazquez was responding by getting bombed in his last four starts, finally in Game 1 of the American League Division Series against the Rays.
The Braves take him because they are thin in the rotation and because general manager Frank Wren was unable to wrangle Jake Peavy out of San Diego. They take him because they are down John Smoltz, Tim Hudson and Tom Glavine. And they take him because they admire his durability and hope he’ll be better away from hitter-friendly U.S. Cellular Field and, of course, Guillen.
This puts into more perspective why we may have gotten a good deal on Vazquez, and why the White Sox were eager to let him go for no major league return. There are a lot of players who have cycled through Ozzie Guillen's doghouse, so take that at face value -- a difficult manager clashing with his players. Vazquez will find just the opposite in Bobby Cox, a manager who should allow Vazquez to relax and just worry about pitching. And he'll find a city in Atlanta without an overbearing media presence.
There were reports earlier in the off-season that the White Sox wanted to jettison some high-salaried players so they could go after several free agent starters. So just as the Braves fill one void in their starting rotation, they may have also created more competition in their pursuit to fill another void by attempting to sign a free agent like A.J. Burnnett or Derek Lowe.
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2 top 10 prospects and 1 of last year’s top 10 is a good deal?
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on
Dec 2, 2008 11:31 PM EST
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11th actually, which is close enough. 5/12 who did the TC poll had him top 10, some even higher.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on
Dec 2, 2008 11:41 PM EST
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this is a dumb way to analyze a deal
look at the top prospects for the braves from 2001-2005 (or any other team for that matter) and you’ll see way more misses than hits
the top 10 lists don’t mean shit
by get swoll yunel on
Dec 3, 2008 12:14 AM EST
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Fan comments from Big League Stew baseball blog on Yahoo
-this sucks being a twins fan when he pitched it was free wins
-Kenny Williams is such an overrated GM, he’ll somehow have blown this deal too
-Another trash guy for the Braves. Why give up Flowers for him when they didnt want to give him up for Peavy?
-Great job atlanta, way to get Vazquez 8 yrs too late
-Yes the Twins will miss him and so will the rest of the al central.
-I hope those names are wrong! How do you give up Flowers (Even with a young All-Star catcher already) for a past his prime innings eater?! Maybe Lillibridge and Reyes..
-glad we got rid of vasquez. he is way overpaid, and i like how kenny is getting rid of the big contract guys that aren’t worth a crap. that being said i dont think the sox are going cheap, i would say they are just making room for a couple more moves. hopefully at second base or center field.
-Haha stupid stupid!! So sorry Braves! And we took Mike Hampton from you for this!
-I am a little confused why Atlanta did this, especially if Flowers is the prospect they say he is. Nice job Kenny.
-I liked the old $120 million Braves a lot better than the more recent $80 million Braves!
-I’ve been a CWS fan for forty years, and while I absolutely love Kenny WIlliams, I cannot figure out why any other GM would want to deal with him. He’s made a career out of rooking teams out of solid prospects for used-up garbage, or picking up players who are “need-change-of-scenery/reclamation-projects” (Contreras, Quentin, Jenks).
He must be the slickest, smoothest-talking jive-a** GM in recent history to pull off some of these trades (anybody remember him dealing Mike Sirotka to the Jays for David Wells, without informing the Jays that Sirotka had a bum shoulder that ended his career?).
I’m sure the Braves will look back on this trade in two or three years and say “What the hell were we thinking?”
-Really it is a decent move for both teams if you throw out the salaries. If it prevents Atlanta from making another move, however, then it is a bad decision for Atlanta. And Boone Logan is awful. I know he is a lefty, but he is really bad.
-Dear Atlanta,
That sound you just heard is a collective sigh of relief from the South Side of Chicago…and Berlin, WI. Enjoy your Javi Juice, serve warm, then cold….very cold.
Sincerely,
Chicago White Sox
Still feel the same about the trade knowing we are the laughing stock of the league right now?
by sting51684 on
Dec 2, 2008 11:49 PM EST
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?
13 comments from a message board makes us the laughing stock of the league? I have the utmost confidence that Bobby and team will get THE most out of Vazquez and when Flowers, and others, tanks I’ll be laughing all the way to the World Series. OK, maybe not the WS but at least the playoffs.
by scstrato on
Dec 2, 2008 11:53 PM EST
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keep dreaming
i bet vazquez is not on the team after the trade deadline, traded for someone who won’t even be considered a prospect (see Mark Kotsay for Luis Somoza)
by sting51684 on
Dec 3, 2008 12:04 AM EST
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How exactly is Luis Sumoza not a prospect?
by cbwilk on
Dec 3, 2008 3:54 AM EST
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Hahaha!
You’re quoting people from a Yahoo blog? Seriously? They’re just as bad as the morons who comment on ESPN stories, and that says a lot.
by soup du jour on
Dec 3, 2008 8:55 AM EST
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Major message boards are not a valid argument
I’ve sometimes started reading responses on major pages like Foxsports or Yahoo, and it is not very long before i’m shaking my head at the completely idiotic posts by some people.
by 10-4 on
Dec 3, 2008 1:04 PM EST
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the good news is, the only big games he’ll pitch in are the june games where we’ve crept to 5 games out with the phillies or mets coming to town.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on
Dec 2, 2008 11:52 PM EST
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atleast
atleast we wont have hope this year. remember when we used to compete?
by sting51684 on
Dec 3, 2008 12:05 AM EST
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back before i was in college. man. old school.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on
Dec 3, 2008 12:07 AM EST
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“as a stuff guy who might never live up to his stuff.”
Wow. I’ve seen stupid, but that takes the cake. 8 K/9, 2.4 BB/9 career is pretty damn solid. Tenth best K/BB among active players along with five HoFs, Johan, and Oswalt.
by 17843 on
Dec 3, 2008 3:14 AM EST
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Forget It.
The guys that are hating on Vazquez care about two things: W and ERA. They can’t seem to look past that at all, so it’s pointless to debate this further. Who cares about his stuff (great K numbers), control (great BB numbers) and durability (great IP numbers) when you have his inflatted ERA (U.S. cellular is a hitter’s park) and W-L record (too many factors beyond a pitcher’s control) to pick at? The way I see it, he’s a solid #2 (sub-4 ERA, sub-1.3 WHIP, 200+ K and 200+ IP) for the Braves in 2009 and that’s certainly something Atlanta quite desperately needs. When the final package is announced, I’ll pass my judgement on the trade, but claiming that Vazquez is some sort of scrub is ridiculous.
Here we go again: http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/
by ejruiz on
Dec 3, 2008 4:18 AM EST
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If this deal is judged in a vacuum I wish we didn’t give up Flowers. But you’re right…we needed a durable starter like him. Now we need to go out and get Burnett or Peavy (dunno about Peavy now, but we’ll see if Towers will back down and Wren is game for dealing more young talent).
If we fail to get a front liner like Peavy, Burnett, Greinke, Cain, etc etc etc then I judge this trade as a failure no matter how he pitches. But if we can pick up the front of the rotation guy then I’m pretty sure I like it, depending on how Flowers turns out.
by soup du jour on
Dec 3, 2008 8:59 AM EST
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2008
Home ERA: 4.25
Road ERA: 5.10
2007
Home ERA: 3.57
Road ERA: 3.92
2006
Home ERA: 4.72
Road ERA: 4.96
in a hitters park, right?
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
by bigjoe on
Dec 3, 2008 1:49 PM EST
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