to convince peavy or burnett to come to atlanta. They had very obvious concerns that the braves may not be a contender. I think that this definitely helps this out.

Vazquez is not a name that blows you a way, but he has been, arguably, the most consistent pitcher in baseball over the last eight years. I agree he is not a number one starter, but we need more than a number one starter. He slots in as a solid 2 or 3 with a great contract. Don’t forget, some of his stats are from his years on an awful Expos team. He will be better in the NL. I would love to keep Flowers, but gondee is absolutely right when he says we gave up expendable players. We are not going to become contenders with one move, but this is a solid piece of the puzzle.

This is a great trade for atlanta, people need to get a clue. Everyone would’ve complained had we gotten Peavy b/c we would’ve had to have given up Esco….they would complain if we end up signing Burnett or Sheets b/c they are injury risks…its unreal.

Vazquez is not as good as Peavy, or Burnett/Sheets when healthy. Yet as gondee said its not like we gave up something that was going to put us over the top next year anyway. T-Flow would’ve had to slot in at 1st base in the future anyway, and while Kotchman isn’t great, he’s a solid first baseman with a strong glove. Vazquez is a horse who pitches close to 200 innings a year. His career record is crap, but records don’t mean much if the pitcher has good stuff but has been on crappy teams. I think this is a win, a trade that both teams win on actually.

While I would have love to have seen Flowers remain in the organization, you have to pay to play. Getting 2 major league players that will come in and contribute right away for 4 players, at least 3 of which won’t sniff the majors for 2-3 years, was a coup.
While this may be sacrilege to say, I’m glad they got Vazquez and not Peavy. While Peavy is probably the better overall pitcher. He doesn’t pitch deep into games. Has a slight injury history. Would tie up more money and years. And lastly, would have cost a helluva lot more than this package.
I think we just have to assume that Frank and the boys know a bit more about the team than us. He got one of the SP’s he said he would get, and still has money to spend on LF(dunn) and the other SP(my hope would be sheets or randy). I think getting Vazquez, a proven innings eater allows the Braves to take a gamble on a Sheets or even Randy.

Flowers might be expendable, but doesn’t anyone think else think that an awesome prospect coming off such a great campaign might be worth a little more than a guy with a career losing record (127-129) and a mediocre era of 4.25 (especially if it is Morton in the trade, who has shown some good stuff and maybe getting closer to putting it all together)?

Flowers was traded while his value was high. His trade value was probably never as high as it was this offseason. He killed the ball in the AFL. While he is a good hitter and may blossom into a very good hitter the AFL numbers are something of a fluke. If you consider (what has been said over and over again) that 1) Flowers is a little old for his stop on the ladder 2) He is NOT a MLB caliber catcher 3) He projects as an offensive catcher but nothing more then a marginal 1B or DH.-Wren was right to move him. Now if this was the best deal in which to move him, that is a different question.
I tend to think that the overall cost of the trade was minimal for the Braves and didn’t strip them of a lot of depth. It gave them a solid #2 to add to the rotation for the next couple years at a very reasonable price. Is Vazquez-by himself-a team changing addition? Probably not. However, no 1 starting pitcher can be a team changer for the Braves. They need AT LEAST two quality starting pitchers to make a run at things. (And no-Hampton and/or Glavine don’t fit that bill). WIth the shortage of good pitching you can’t count that the Braves are going to be able to go after and land two…if one…free agent pitcher. With Vazquez they get one piece of the puzzle (one that has actually been healthy for most of his career-which by itself has value) and are in a position to sign the second piece like a Ben Sheets or a AJ Burnett (although I personally prefer to go after Lowe or even Penny -if healthy. Burnett has health problems and is going to demand big bucks over multiple years. Sheets could probably be had for a one year deal…maybe a one year deal with an option and has greater upside then Burnett.)

Where is the logic in this deal?

I agree that Vasquez is valuable, his contract only has 2 years left on it and it is reasonable. But the dude is 32, there is no way the braves are resigning him after these two years are up. And even if it does temp Peavy (which would be terrible b/c it’d mean giving up the rest of the farm) or Burnett, the braves still aren’t the best team in the NL East by far. They may be a fringe wild card team, but that’s pushing it.

I also agree this is selling high on T-Flo, which is good. But when the Braves simply aren’t close to being a championship team for the next two years, why not hang on to the young guys until that run is ready to be made? Am I the only one who remembers getting killed by the phillies early in the season when the braves still had Tex and a mostly healthy rotation? and yeah Chuck Morton hasn’t put it all together yet, but all the stuff is there. I think he just needs more confidence in his stuff.

Giving up JoJo and Lillibridge is totally fine though, I like that part.

I’m fine with signing free agents to reasonable contracts, but I don’t get the need to turn a bad roster into a mediocre one, especially knowing how bright the future will probably be (assuming it’s not mortgaged)

check out this photo of boone: http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/boones-beard.jpg

the 80s porno bush on his face indicates strong upside.

I don’t understand a lot of this talk. This is a great trade. The Braves always somehow manage to trade these young prospects when their values are peaking. I don’t understand why so many people are absolutely clinging on to these prospects?? We do have a great farm league but a lot of these guys will never be Major League contributors. Vazquez is a solid pitcher who is very dependable and I don’t know about most people but I’ll be glad when we have at least one pitcher that you don’t have to worry about his constant injuries or old age. (Huddy just had bad luck with his injury) This past season wore me out wondering who they were gonna have to trot out there cause Hampton’s hamstring got tweaked, or Glavine’s elbow hurt or Smoltz’s shoulder was stiff. THANK GOD FOR DEPENDABILITY!!!

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Javier-Vazquez-headed-to-Atlanta-to-frustrate-Br?urn=mlb,126374

the line of that article that sums up Javier Vazquez :

Like the D’backs, Yankees and Expos before them, the Pale Hose could never get over the inconsistency that Vazquez brought to the mound. A powerful flamethrower one minute but a mental midget the next, Vazquez could never quite put it together to realize the potential that so many have seen.

He’s alright, nothing special. He had an extremely bad habit of giving up runs when we scored the half inning before. Like others have stated he’s extremely inconsistent and isn’t much more than an innings eater. For every 8 IP, 13 K, 3 H, 1 ER game he gives you there will be a 5.1 IP, 8 K, 8 H, 2 BB, 6 ER game in between. The comment that really did him in with ChiSox fans is when he said during the stretch run that he didn’t care what people thought of him because at the end of his career he will be on the beach. When he’s on though, he’s great.

-this sucks being a twins fan when he pitched it was free wins

-Kenny Williams is such an overrated GM, he’ll somehow have blown this deal too

-Another trash guy for the Braves. Why give up Flowers for him when they didnt want to give him up for Peavy?

-Great job atlanta, way to get Vazquez 8 yrs too late

-Yes the Twins will miss him and so will the rest of the al central.

-I hope those names are wrong! How do you give up Flowers (Even with a young All-Star catcher already) for a past his prime innings eater?! Maybe Lillibridge and Reyes..

-glad we got rid of vasquez. he is way overpaid, and i like how kenny is getting rid of the big contract guys that aren’t worth a crap. that being said i dont think the sox are going cheap, i would say they are just making room for a couple more moves. hopefully at second base or center field.

-Haha stupid stupid!! So sorry Braves! And we took Mike Hampton from you for this!

-I am a little confused why Atlanta did this, especially if Flowers is the prospect they say he is. Nice job Kenny.

-I liked the old $120 million Braves a lot better than the more recent $80 million Braves!

-I’ve been a CWS fan for forty years, and while I absolutely love Kenny WIlliams, I cannot figure out why any other GM would want to deal with him. He’s made a career out of rooking teams out of solid prospects for used-up garbage, or picking up players who are "need-change-of-scenery/reclamation-projects" (Contreras, Quentin, Jenks).
He must be the slickest, smoothest-talking jive-a** GM in recent history to pull off some of these trades (anybody remember him dealing Mike Sirotka to the Jays for David Wells, without informing the Jays that Sirotka had a bum shoulder that ended his career?).
I’m sure the Braves will look back on this trade in two or three years and say "What the hell were we thinking?"

-Really it is a decent move for both teams if you throw out the salaries. If it prevents Atlanta from making another move, however, then it is a bad decision for Atlanta. And Boone Logan is awful. I know he is a lefty, but he is really bad.

-Dear Atlanta,
That sound you just heard is a collective sigh of relief from the South Side of Chicago…and Berlin, WI. Enjoy your Javi Juice, serve warm, then cold….very cold.
Sincerely,
Chicago White Sox

Still feel the same about the trade knowing we are the laughing stock of the league right now?

Who cares what other fans think of the deal?

i read all of your coments about dont get this guy dont get this one, who should we get?