Flowers is being rumored as the third player in the deal. We would also get Boone Logan who if you want a good scare look at his numbers.

is a Catcher that is PROJECTED NOT to stick at catcher and move to first in the majors. He was 22 years old at High A and he dominated AFL. Big deal. Its better than trading Freeman who is 18 years old and DOMINATED Low A. People Flowers is NOT gonna get us a stud by himself and even with Reyes and Lilli in the deal he still is not gonna get us a stud. I like Flowers he could be a real good first baseman but i like Freeman more.

that this is a good deal so far. We’ll have to see who the other young starter is and the third prospect but I like Vazquez. He is a master innings-eater which is always needed. I like Flowers, and most will disagree, but if we can include him to get Dye, I’d do it. We all know we want and need a power hitting outfielder and Dye fits the bill. Let’s get this done and put our focus back on Burnett!!!

Vazquez will be a lot more valuable than $11.5 million the next two years. He certainly improves our ability to contend next year.

He’s hard to peg preformance-wise because his peripherals are usually great (very good tRA and FIP), but he consistently has posted bad ERAs the last five years (save 2007) largely because he’s played in front of bad defenses. I like him to be around a true talent of 3.80-4.00 ERA and he’s good for 200 IP. That’s 20 runs above average or ~4 wins above replacement. Using ~$5 million per win, he’s worth $20 million – making him a significant revenue stream for us at $11.5 million a year.

His age is a bit of a concern, but I’d much rather pay him $23 million for age 32 and 33 seasons than pay $50 million for Burnett’s age 32-35 seasons. The best thing about him is his price. We’re only on the hook for two seasons and only at $23 million total. That gives us financial flexibility in two offseasons when we’ll have a lot of free agent decisions to make (Francoeur, Kotchman, Johnson, Hudson) and still gets us a good starter. Vazquez is underrated because of his ERA, but he strikes out 8 per nine, walks only 2.5 per 9, and has an equal GB/FB. And he pitches 200 innings like it’s his job.

Flowers is a premium prospect because of the combo of a great bat and the chance he’ll stick at catcher. If he sticks at catcher he’ll be a bad defensive catcher who will struggle to catch 125 games consistently. If he moves to first he’ll be a sub-par defensive first baseman who’s value will take a gigantic hit (something like 2-2.5 wins of value just from moving). In other words, I’d cash him in now because in another year we’ll have a much better idea of what position he’ll play in the major leagues. That’s not a good thing for his value most likely.

Lillibridge and Reyes are being undervalued here. Reyes could easily be #4 starter for the next 3 years. At $400K per that’s incredible value. Lillibridge also has a lot of value for the glove. The only way he doesn’t play in the majors in some role is if his injury induced struggles last year are his true talent. I doubt that.

Wren didn’t want to include Flowers because they were already giving up so much for Peavy. If he’s the centerpiece of a trade for an established starter like Vazquez, it makes much more sense. I hate to give up Flowers, but we’ve already got McCann at the major league level, so Flowers’ basic role within the organization was tradebait, and that’s what’s happening. Lilli and Reyes wouldn’t be enough to net anyone of quality, so you have to throw in someone else to make it work. I think both sides improve with this trade. Without Vazquez, here’s what the Braves rotation looks like for next year…
1. ? Burnett (big maybe)
2. Jair
3. Campillo
4. Morton
5. ??
That’s probably one of the worst rotations in the league, especially if Burnett wasn’t in it. I love Jair, but he’s a #3. Campillo will regress, who knows about Morton. Vazquez in a #2 in the NL, and will most likely pitch very well at a low pay rate.

Vazquez is not as bad as people on here are making him out to be. He is an above average major league pitcher. You gotta give up somethin to get somethin.

I am in disbelief how people are sayin dont trade Flowers because of Catching depth in the damn minors. We have other Catchers in the minors, yeah none as good as Flowers but unless McCann gets hurt then Flowers wont see no time at Catcher. And plus MANY scouts dont think he will stick at catcher anyway. His trade value is through the roof right now. And im SURE that Wren looked around and offered Flowers to alot of teams to see what he could get. Im sure this is the best and this is a damn good offer. Oh yeah and its ABSURD to think that Flowers is the best catching prospect in the game. One person earlier on here or on one thread said Flowers is prolly the best Cathing prospect even better than Wieters. Ok you MIGHT want to put down the kool-aid.

Is Reyes in the deal or not? Over at minorleagueball.com they are saying it is not Reyes and could be Morton involved in the deal.

said that JoJo is NOT in the deal. So not sure. But look at this right here, this is interesting.

“He posted a 3.00 ERA and allowed opponents a .250 batting average in 39 appearances before the All-Star break.”

That is talkin about Logan. He is 23 or 24 now so maybe he will be better than than many thought. I know he finished bad but maybe it was fatigue.

I’m not excited about Logan but I think that Vazquez will be a good addition. This trade gives me the impression that Wren is getting him more to be a number 2 starter and he is not the ace that he is looking for. I think the winter meetings will provide us with another starter.

Jo Jo is 100 percent not in the deal..

But with the inclusion of Logan in the Vazquez trade, does that mean he will likely be let go? I certainly hope not, but it wouldn’t make much sense to keep Ohman too UNLESS Logan either has minor league options left OR if Bobby wants TWO left handed relievers in his bullpen next year (not included Gonzo as he is the closer, I think).

We’ll have to see how this all pans out, but Vasquez is a really solid pitcher with a good contract. He should be able to help stabilize the rotation immediately. Overall, he’s a much safer bet to have a pair of 200 inning, 4.00 or better ERA seasons than Burnett or Sheets. A solid defense, neutral park, and easier league should make this guy look a lot better than he did in Chicago.

If Flowers is in the deal, I’ll be a little disappointed, but I would still call it a good move on our part. Flowers was old for his level and there are questions about his ability to stick as a catcher. 22 year old first basemen that mash in high-A aren’t exactly rare, and I have a feeling that first base is Tyler’s future home. I wish him the best of luck going forward if he is indeed a part of this trade.

I’m very low on Lillibridge at this point – as he’s moved through the minors, his numbers have gotten progressively worse. Not a promising sign. The upside here as of now is probably a slick fielding utility man.

Jon Gilmore isn’t a guy I know a ton about. Had a good campaign in Danville this year, but I would consider him a very low risk throw-in on our part. He’s probably only looking at about a 10% chance to make it as a big leaguer.

Santos Rodriguez seems similar to Gilmore, but he was 20 and pitching in the Appalachian League – he’s got a lot of ground to make up if he ever wants to see a major league job.

So unless he pitches better than in previous seasons, Jurrjens will likely be the #2 starter which means the Braves still need to add that ace pitcher everyone wants (Burnett or Peavy are my preference).

No one like the thought that they have to pitch four times a week.

Not as good as it was when it was Flowers and Lilli. It sucks that Gilmore is in it but still not a bad deal. We keep Morton and Reyes and could still ship one off if we had to to get another player. The deal is fine.

While we do vazquez and boone, I would much rather pay this price to get javier and dye.
Flowers, even without staying at catcher, is still a rather good offensive prospect, one whom I would much rather give up for a greinke or peavy. While lillibridge is basically a giveaway since we really have no need for him, I am kinda leery of giving up gilmore and rodriguez, as they both seemed to show flashes of star potential. While I am not mad hat we are getting vazquez, my biggest point is that i think we could have got a pitcher who will provide similar production at a cheaper price if we were not dealing with Kenny Williams. I think that this deal is definately worth expanding to Dye if the potential is there to get him.