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Peavy No Longer Makes Sense for the Braves

The reported signing of Rafael Furcal has re-ignited the rumors, which never really went away, about the Braves imminent trade for Jake Peavy. This trade once made a great deal of sense for the Padres and the Braves.

It no longer does.

Many people immediately assume the acquisition of Furcal, assuming it is made official in the next few days, makes a trade for Jake Peavy more likely. I would argue the exact opposite. 

First, two assumptions:

1)I'm assuming Yunel Escobar would be involved in any trade for Peavy. I just can't imagine the Padres being willing to accept a package of minor-leaguers for Peavy when they have made it clear they are prepared to keep him on the roster for at least the start of the 2009 season.

2) I'm also assuming Yunel Escobar and Rafael Furcal have similar value. Over two seasons, Escobar has hit .303, with a .373 OBP and a .420 slugging percentage. Furcal, over 9 seasons has hit. .286, with a .352 OBP and a .412 slugging percentage. They have similiar contact, on-base and power numbers. Furcal steals more bases, although it's unclear how much his back problems will affect his base stealing in the future. The two are essentially equal defensively.

While Furcal has a more proven track record, he is also much more of an injury risk than Escobar. Given Escobar may have room for development, especially in the power department, I think you could make a solid case Escobar is the more desirable player baseball-wise.

The rest of proposition comes down to mathematics. When thinking about the Bracve perusing Jake Peavy, ask yourself how much sense the following scenario makes:

The Braves give Furcal $10 to replace Escobar who will make very little in 2009 and 2010. He'll be arbitration eligible in 2011, the last year of Furcal's guaranteed 3-year deal. Then, they trade Escobar and three other prospects for Peavy, who makes $15 million a year.

If you consider Escobar and Furcal interchangeable, what you have is the Braves giving up three prospects in order to pay an additional $25 million per year for Jake Peavy's services.

Jake Peavy is a good pitcher. Probably one of the 10 best in the game. But he is not worth $25 million per year. If the Braves intended to spend that much on a pitcher, they could have out-bid the Yankees for CC Sabathia and not had to give up three prospects to acquire him.

The Furcal signing, to me, is proof the Braves no longer have interest in Peavy.

I'm not saying Escobar or Kelly Johnson won't be traded, but it won't be for high-priced starting pitcher or outfielder. The Braves just spent the money they hoped to allocate to Peavy on Furcal. What might make sesne is trading Escobar or Johnson for a young power-hitting outfielder or a young starting pitcher such as Zack Greinke or Paul Maholm.

Or, the Braves could keep both of them and trade for a young power-hitting center-fielder using prospects.

It simply doesn't make sense to sign Furcal to replace Escobar in order to trade Escobar for a high-priced veteran. Even If the Braves had that kind of money to throw around, they would going after Sabathia and Texiera, not trading prospects and adding $25 million to the payroll in order to bring in Peavy.

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I think if this trade opens up a trade for anybody it would be Kelly Johnson. I would like to see Furcal at second and Escobar at SS. I really don’t like the idea of moving Johnson to left field. We need a power bat in the outfield and he isn’t it. Plus I don’t think that his arm would hold up having to play in the outfield again. In the end I think that someone we haven’t even really talked about will be coming to Atlanta next year. That’s the way the Braves tend to work.

by jack dein on Dec 16, 2008 5:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

KJ

The Braves could probably more easily part with Johnson because in the event Furcal is hurt, Martin Prado could fill in at second base. And, yes, there is some question about Johnson’s fitness to play left field.

However, trading Johnson for a high-priced veteran doesn’t make much more sense than trading Escobar for one. Johnson is arbitration eligible, but still cheap. He’s a different type of hitter than Escobar, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest Escobar is better offensively. Defensively, yes, Escobar is better.

I agree the Braves need more power, but that power could be added in center field, whilist keeping Johnson in left field.

This trade gives the Braves options, but I don’t think it’s a sign of anything imminent. I could be wrong, but I think with the Furcal signing the Braves were looking for the flexibility to make moves later should opportunities arise.

by BrandonG on Dec 16, 2008 5:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree..

I would still like to see the Braves go after Peavy for the sake of getting an ACE in here. I really like the signing of our home grown Furcal becuase he adds speed, a swich hitter with pop and can play 2B. I would then keep Escobar at SS and this time if the Padres really want to trade Peavy I would include a package highlighted by maybe KJ and some prospects..An infield with Chipper, Furcal, Esco and Kasey. I would then put Shafer in CF, Jeff in RF and in LF(Please, not KJ or Matt Diaz) get Carlos Lee or Maggalio Ordonez.

by AlRoBraves95 on Dec 16, 2008 7:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

why do you think we can afford furcal, peavy AND a masher in LF?

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Dec 16, 2008 7:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’ll tell you man, if it’s not one thing it’s another. Some people are furious that we traded our prospects for Tex, and some people are willing to toss as many prospects as possible for Vazquez, Peavy, and now Carlos Lee.

I need a drink.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 16, 2008 7:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

People didn't like giving prospects for Tex cuz he is now gone

We all loved it at the time. Our first baseman for the next 10 years. Our next Chipper. Our future. Now, he is gone. All of the prospects we traded for Vasquez are expendable. We have McCann in front of Flowers. Lilli was nothing more than a glove. Gilmore has many years before he reaches the majors, and Rodriguez is another pitcher.

But I would not like to give up too many prospects for Peavy or Lee.

by scottyboy10 on Dec 16, 2008 7:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

at the time, feliz was just another pitcher. andrus and salty were blocked. harrison was a wam body. and beau jones is trash.

DO YOU SEE WHAT I DID THERE?!?!?!?!?

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Dec 16, 2008 7:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ya im sure we can get Lee for a package of like Brandon Jones, Jojo Reyes and Diory Hernandez… that should do it

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Dec 18, 2008 12:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m holding out hope for a Greinke trade. If we were to aquire Greinke then I think we would be the front runners a 2010 World Series. The reason I think this would be we would have Hudson back to sit at the top of the rotation, Greinke, Jurrjens, and Hanson in the middle and Vazquez or Smoltz at the back of the rotation. By 2010 Shafer will be in the majors, Rorbough and Locke will be close along with Heyward and Freeman. We could have a very good and very young team coming in the next few years.

by jack dein on Dec 16, 2008 5:35 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Social Anxiety

Does anyone worry about Greinke’s ability to pitch in big games? He really has never had to with the Royals. He did have to sit out a year with Social Anxiety Disorder. Just a thought. I would hope he’s put it behind him, but probably the only person that knows is him.

by Hizilla on Dec 16, 2008 5:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If we were to aquire Greinke then I think we would be the front runners a 2010 World Series

I was going to rip you a new one, until I realized you said 2010, though that statement is still a stretch.

by TradeAndruw on Dec 16, 2008 6:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not buying this. The wisdom of the Furcal signing IS dependent on whatever follow-up move the Braves choose to make (right now, that follow-up seems to be moving Kelly Johnson to left field). Shortstop isn’t and never was a need for the Braves, so Furcal’s value is tied to how his acquisition helps the team fill needs it DOES have.

However, the Peavy deal DOES fill a need, and thus it’s an independent move and should be evaluated as such. If the Braves can make a smart trade for Jake Peavy, they should do it, without being concerned how much his replacement cost, since that deal is already done. How smart the Furcal signing is or isn’t ought to have zero bearing on discussions with the Padres. If they do trade for Peavy, there’s certainly an argument that signing Furcal was the wrong move, given the cost. But if that’s the case, which was the bad move? Not the Peavy deal, but rather the Furcal signing. Follow me?

by tgthree on Dec 16, 2008 6:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

What do you think of this?

Do you think if we can’t get an ace for escobar or KJ then we keep all three of them until a trade for oswalt, greinke, kazmir, Halladay, or peavy arises at the deadline?

by Charmin519 on Dec 16, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No, unless one of those guys is majorly discounted come July 31. I think that if the Braves don’t seriously shore up their pitching staff NOW, they won’t still be in contention at that point, and it makes much more sense to look at deals next winter than in July. The Braves are pretty clearly going all-out for 2009, which doesn’t bother me since they aren’t damaging the team’s “dynasty potential,” but I think Vazquez and Furcal sort of look like big wastes of prospects and money if you don’t get an ace to back them up going into the ’09 campaign.

by tgthree on Dec 16, 2008 6:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It also seems like midseason trades seem to cost more. Look at the trade to get Tex.

by jack dein on Dec 16, 2008 6:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

That does seem to be an interesting phenomenon. An offseason acquitition should cost more, because you are getting the player for an entire season. But it often doesn’t work out that way. I wonder if it has something to do with pressure on GMs to make deadline deals. It certainly doesn’t make a lot of sense.

by BrandonG on Dec 16, 2008 6:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

its because during the season need is greater and options are limited.. during the offseason GMs can do a number fo things to plug holes, build from within, FA or trade… during the season your only option is trading with the handful of teams who are already out of contention

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Dec 18, 2008 12:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i.e. basic supply and demand

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Dec 18, 2008 12:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Furcal Signing was a Good Move

I think the Furcal signing was a good move even if the Braves do nothing else this winter. Why? Because, at $10 million per year for 3 years he’s as close to a bargain as the Braves are going to find this winter. The Braves do have some money to spend and so far have failed in their attempts to spend it on Peavy and Burnett. The market for Furcal turned out to be weak and, apparently, he was willing to give the Braves a bit of a discount because he didn’t want to play for Oakland, who was the leader bidder for his services. So, the Braves snatch up a bargain and still have enough money to address other needs.

However, the main benefit of the move is the flexibility the Braves now have. They don’t have to trade Kelly Johnson or Yunel Escobar, but if they need to trade one of them to bring in a power-hitting outfielder or starting pitcher, they can trade one. No problem. Or, they could acquire a power-hitting center fielder without moving Escobar or Johnson.

Or, hey, if the Padres suddenly decide they must trade Jake Peavy (don’t see that happening, but if they can’t fill all of their wholes without moving his salary, i suppose it’s possible), the Braves could offer a package which does not include Escobar or Johnson. But I’m convinced the Braves have decided trading Escobar for a high-priced veteran is out of the question for the reasons I mentioned above. It just doesn’t make sense financially to them.

by BrandonG on Dec 16, 2008 6:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But the reasons you discuss above constitute bad management. Basically, you’re saying, “hey, we spent money where we didn’t need to, and now we’re hesitant to spend on something we DO need.” Again, if Peavy + Furcal turns out to be a net negative, it’s the Furcal signing that made it negative, not the Peavy deal.

by tgthree on Dec 16, 2008 6:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Signing Furcal Means Something Is Going Down...

The Braves already have a SS in Escobar. Not only do they have a SS but one that is not eligable for arbitration in 3 years.. So you may be asking yourself, why sign for another SS?

Remember back a few months ago when the Braves were hisitant in trading Esco? Its because our farm lack a major league ready SS.Now we have him and he is expendable. Yes, I want to see Esco stay at short and move Furcal to 2B but its obvious we need an ACE. We tryed to get Burnett but he choose more money and the city lights, Lowe is to expensive, old and not an ACE.

We need Peavy to head-line that starting rotation for the next 4 years. Can you imagine? Peavy, Hudson, Javy, Jair, Hanson? Wow!!!! I would like to trade KJ instead of Esco but when trading you at least want equal value in return. Lets Get Peavy in here NOW!!

by AlRoBraves95 on Dec 16, 2008 7:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not necessarily

I’m not saying signing Furcal was money poorly spent at all. If the Braves were to trade Escobar for Peavy and bring in a low-cost replacement that would be one thing. But, bringing in a $10 million free agent who is essentially equal to Escobar to play SS so Escobar could be traded for a $15 million starting pitcher doesn’t make sense unless you believe that starting pitcher is worth $25 million per season. I don’t believe Peavy is worth $25 million and even if I did, I would prefer to pay the same amount or less for CC Sabathia and not give up three prospects in addition to Escobar. I would guess Wren feels the same way.

I like the Furcal signing, and I think it indicates the Braves feel they can address their starting pitching needs with a younger pitcher.

Furcal is a good addition and Peavy would have been a good addition. But the two moves together don’t make good financial sense if you have to trade Escobar to get Peavy.

by BrandonG on Dec 16, 2008 8:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I am saying that if the Furcal signing is an impediment to a Jake Peavy trade, then signing Furcal WAS money poorly spent. That’s my whole point. If the two moves together don’t make financial sense (implying that they could only make one of the two), then they picked the wrong one.

If the two are mutually exclusive (I don’t think they are, but you do), then the Furcal signing was a bad move. As for me, I don’t see why they should let the Furcal signing have any influence whatsoever on the Peavy deal. The Furcal deal (assuming it’s done) is over and done with. Nothing you can do about it now, whether you would want to or not. The Braves would be amiss to let a contract that’s already on the books impede their dealings to fill another, entirely different need.

If the Peavy deal makes the Furcal signing look bad, then so be it. But the team as a whole looks even worse with just Furcal and no ace.

by tgthree on Dec 16, 2008 8:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Of those Greinke and Peavy are available now because its not like the Royals or Padres are going to wait and see if the in hunt by then. I really don’t think Houston wants to trade Oswalt because he is the face of that team. Halladay would cost way to much. The only one that makes sense is Kazmir. I have heard from places that if David Price comes out and is good then Kazmir could become available.

by jack dein on Dec 16, 2008 6:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

If that’s the case then Kazmir should already be available; Price is a stud.

by cbwilk on Dec 17, 2008 1:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think this may be the sign that they are going with Kelly in left. If they add another pitcher (which they will) they can’t really afford both Burrell or Abreu and Peavy or Grienke.

Also Jack Dein, you’ve heard from places? Who are Buster Olney is disguising or some shit?

by rocket8188 on Dec 16, 2008 7:45 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Jack Dein read that in a chat by Tim Dierkes this afternoon. Dierkes was purely speculating, and he doesn’t have the greatest history as a speculator. Mr. Dein would do well to reveal his sources rather than trying to play coy and hoping that no one else hears things from the same “places” that he does.

by tgthree on Dec 16, 2008 8:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I read it somewhere after the World Series ended. I have heard it from various places since then but nothing all that recent and at the time it didn’t involved the Braves so I just dismissed it. That and I didn’t think that the Rays would be willing to trade him. Now I wish I could remember where I read it sorry. All I remember was that it was an article talking about potential players who could become available. It was in an article on ESPN and I tried to find it again but I think its to old. And P.S. I don’t read Tim Dierkes chats. They just turn into a bunch of people asking the same questions. I think the last time I read one was about 2 months ago.

by jack dein on Dec 16, 2008 9:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I just spent an hour trying to find the article on ESPN but its like they delete everything over a month old. Like I said above it was an old article and since I haven’t heard anything else about it must not be relevent anymore.

by jack dein on Dec 16, 2008 9:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That wasn't necessary. You just made a pretty bad speculation about Mr. Dein's sources.

I saw the chat too. Check out Big Joes FanShot about Halladay. it’s a quote from a chat as well but it includes stuff on halladay. Pure speculation.

by Charmin519 on Dec 16, 2008 10:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Peavy doesn't make sense?

I’m sorry but you’re not making sense! Peavy is an ace starter and any team in MLB would be glad to fit him into their rotation. I’m assuming the real intent of this signing is to free up a middle infielder to be included in a trade for another top notch starter. If we don’t get this accomplished I fear, with way all the other teams in the division are improving, we have a real possibility of finishing dead last in the NL East!

by teanatl on Dec 16, 2008 10:47 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I still don’t think Peavy wants to be in the Atl. He appears to be a douche. When the Padres come to town next season, i plan on making a sign that says “Peavy: Go Cubs Go!”

by 10-4 on Dec 17, 2008 8:57 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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