Weekly confidence poll: GM edition
by sdp on Dec 12, 2008 10:00 PM EST
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PrintWith 109 responses to last week's poll, the results are illustrated in the chart below:
How have recent events changed your confidence in Frank Wren?
All I will say is that we made a very competitive offer. I would say geography was a primary factor. We knew we couldn't move Maryland closer to Atlanta. We were swimming upstream all along. There are still a number of guys that we like who can fill out our rotation. There are still options out there.
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So far, I like the path he's taking
The good -
1. We avoided a major landmine in Burnett. He’s not had a single three-year period of effectiveness and health his entire career, much less five years. The Yankees will be regretting his contract by the third year.
2. The Vasquez deal was a very good one. We surrendered one second tier prospect for a guy who gives us 200 innings of league-average pitching at the worst. If he’s an above average pitcher over that span, this trade was a complete steal for us.
3. Wren has made a public commitment to keep the farm system intact and he’s kept that commitment in trade talks. Hanson, Heyward, Schafer, and Freeman are all going to be with the organization in 2009, and that’s a good thing for us going forward. I was, for a variety of reasons, opposed to making the Peavy deal that we saw right before talks died. The bottom line is that the Padres have no leverage and when they asked for too much Wren told them to get lost. We still may end up with him when the dust settles, but if we do it will be for far less that we would have paid the first time around.
The bad -
1. Why hasn’t the Smoltz situation been resolved? Nobody likes hearing that one of our all time greats is drawing attention from a number of teams, so just go ahead and give him his contract.
2. We don’t seem to be considering Derek Lowe to fill out our rotation. Lowe is, in my opinion, the most reliable starter on the market. He doesn’t wow you with big strikeout totals, but he keeps the ball on the ground, doesn’t surrender walks, and pitches 200 innings every year. I don’t see why we wouldn’t give him a 4 year/55 million contract.
Overall, it’s been a conservative offseason, but I’m just fine with that. I think that right now this is probably an 80 win team in a relatively weak division. I don’t think there’s a chance in hell that we’re a world series contender, but 2008 won’t be repeated.
by BraveBronco0121 on Dec 13, 2008 6:37 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
You make some excellent points. I don’t like the idea of Smoltz pitching for anyone else next season, although at this point, that may happen. The thing we have going for us is that we would allow him to come back in what ever role he wants. I hope that gets resolved pretty soon.
I’m not sure we want to get into another bidding war with Lowe as Boras is his agent and I doubt we would win that one either. Plus, I think teams may be regretting the 3rd and 4th year of a Lowe contract.
On to Sheets. If Sheets had finished the season healthy and not with a sore elbow, is there any doubt he would up there with Burnett in terms of money? Burnett has never been an ace with any team and apparently has said he does not want to be. Sheets has been the ace of Milwaukee. Do we really want to pay that much for someone who may not have the mental makeup of a true ace? I say we make a run at Sheets and see where that goes. I dont know what the market is for him yet as I didn’t think Burnett would get 5 years and 82.5mil, but lets find out and go from there.
You summed it up pretty well
Although you could argue that not chasing Lowe is a good thing considering his contract demands. If it weren’t for that I would have no problem with us targeting him.
Still 40%. Just because he missed on stepping on the Burnett mine doesn’t mean he gets credit for it.
I’m curious as to why you have so little faith in him. Is it because of the moves he has made, or the moves he isn’t making?
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 13, 2008 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Offering 5 years/ $80 million for Burnett was a terrible move, and he’s lucky that Burnett chose New York over Atlanta.
Not talking to Sheets or Dunn is also a terrible oversight on his part. To be fair, maybe he has talked to them and it just hasn’t leaked, but with the way the Braves’ FO seems to be leaking information lately, I highly doubt it.
Offering Escobar and prospects for Peavy, also a terrible move. He was saved by the Padres’ stupidity here.
Vazquez trade, seems pretty fair for both sides. I’m not going to complain about that one.
It’s not that he’s made stupid moves, but he’s certainly tried. Other teams have out-stupided him, but that doesn’t make his moves any more justifiable.
by drdonkeypunch on Dec 13, 2008 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Well ...
I’m not worried. I’m going to write the Braves front office right now. I found more capable GM (talking about you)!
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
Bobby Cox
Thanks, great reply, you’ve addressed all of my points adequately and I concede the debate to you. See you in the next thread!
by drdonkeypunch on Dec 13, 2008 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
No need to address points you don't make ...
Burnett deal was a “terrible move” … wow, you really substantiated that point.
Not going after Dunn/Sheet is a “terrible oversight” … I agree w/ you here. But again, what point did you prove?
Point is that FW is a pro. I have faith in him. He’s not a random, he sat in JS’s shadow a bit, he has some idea of what he’s doing. Stop hatin’ playa.
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)
frank wren has been a GM in baseball for 2 seasons. and he got fired after one of those.
BIG JOE SUCK ONE
Gotta start somewhere homie
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)
OK
that made me chuckle … point for you
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)
Huh?
His point is that Wren has made some bad moves. Burnett for $80M over 5 for the Braves bad because of injury concern + age. Escobar +prospects for Peavy was straight up overpaying and Towers was dumb for not taking it. Wren has done plenty of good things too, but there’s no reason to ignore some obviously bad moves.
I try to be optimistic about things. Wren picked up Javy because he thought Javy underperformed and he’s been gun shy on Dunn/Burrell partially because of their awful defense (even though at this point Dunn is probably the best bet unless there’s a trade somewhere). He said he’d get Atlanta 2 starters and an OF bat without trading the top prospects so I have faith that he’ll get that done.
I know
I said he didn’t substantiate the points he made. I can read. You just substantiated his points for him. What you call “bad moves” might be considered “prudent moves” or “necessary moves” 10 years from now. True?
"He's getting better, but he's not there yet ..."
- Bobby Cox (talking about Boyer)
I agree with all of your points. In addition, sources said the Braves are glad Towers didn’t end up taking the package for Peavy that Wren was offering. Really? Sounds like our front office is a little shaky. Why make offers you’re not completely sure about. Sounds like 8 year olds trading baseball cards.
I don’t have faith in his valuation of players, I don’t share his belief that we should be bringing in older players in an attempt to contend next season. I disagree with his rejection of bringing in low cost talent through the Rule V draft and signing minor league free agents. So the 2nd I suppose. The Vazquez deal wasn’t bad, the Renteria deal was genius, the Ascanio deal was great, the Kotsay deal was necessary, but stuff like dealing Willy Aybar for a situational lefty when we had several was just bad.
it seems like u are pointing to the fact that he has made some great moves… although i agree he has made questionable oes, (i.e. Aybar, although he was a bit of a malcontent)..not seeing where the 40% comes in.. not trying to antagonize
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
He has made some good trades, however that’s nowhere near all there is to being a GM. read the first three sentences.
what makes u question his valuation, i.e. examples of such occurences…also, i dont see anyone in the rule V draft and minor league free agents generally arnt players worhty of being signed, sure there are instances where it works out but that are an infitnite amount of times it doesnt. Although i agree bringin in old players in an attempt to contend doesnt make a lot of sense, you bring in an aging veteran if he is the last piece to the puzzle or you are really young and need clubhouse leadership (ala the rays with floyd and percival).. so on that point i completely agree. the onyl thign i would say about the agin vertans ( i asumme u mean Glavine and maybe Kotsay).. is there are more to a GMs decisions than just winnign and losing, unfortunate as it is, its a fact of life in baseball
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
Smoltz
I still feel pretty good about Smoltz. Seems like some posturing by his agent. Didn’t we hear from both Smoltz and the Braves that they would wait to talk contract until he decided whether he was healthy enough to pitch? Has Smoltz decided he’s healthy enough to pitch? Maybe the Braves haven’t decided this yet? Or Smoltz hasn’t told them yet.
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