Rebuild
by #1bravesfan on Nov 9, 2008 8:53 PM EST
11 comments
The braves probaly aren't going to be in contention this year. I was just wondering what you guys would do to put this team back on the right track via trades, free agents (this years class and next years) on calling up from our farm systems. filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler firller filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler filler
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Hmmm...
If half your post is the word “filler”, then it is probably just a comment, not a FanPost of its own. Also, I don’t agree with your assumption. I think you do exactly what Wren is doing (look for two frontline SP, a slugging OF and refuse to trade your elite prospects) so I’m not worried.
Here we go again: http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/
I agree with your assumption and have posted my off-season plan in another thread. Basically:
1. Don’t trade established or ML ready above-average talent. The value of these players is extremely high because of their relative cheapness compared to talent level. This means keep Escobar, Johnson, Kotchman, and Jurrjens.
2. Trade players that are expensive relative to their production; ie, Omar Infante, a free agent after this season who will earn ~$2 million next season, Mike Gonzalez, an unpredictable reliever and free agent after this season who will earn ~$3.5 million next season. Neither provides much value to a team not in contention and both can be replaced by cheap talent.
3. Prize roster flexibility using the Rule V Draft and waiver wire to acquire talent cheaply that has upside. Especially utilize this right before the season to pick up players that another team cannot option to the minor leagues.
4. Go after high upside minor league free agents to attempt to restock the bullpen and bench.
5. Invest in the draft and international market in 2009; spend the supposed payroll surplus on overslot bonuses and seven figure international bonuses that will restock our system with high-upside talent that we can continue to pump to the majors.
6. Above all, recognize that there is little material difference between 70 wins and 80 wins. Don’t make stupid little patches like Glavine and Kotsay that both cost free agent salaries and prospects/draft picks.
7. If we’re doomed to play the free agent market this year, target the top talent (Teixeira, Sabathia) who are both young and extremely productive. Don’t pay for second/third tier free agents (the most overpriced class of major leaguers).
Except for #2
There’s no reason why we can’t take that approach while trying to compete…
Here we go again: http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/
Wrong. #5 and #6 are at direct odds with competing next year as we need a $10 million surplus to play the game successfully and we’ll definitely need patches to compete. #1 largely is, especially as current deals for Peavy are set-up. #7 is also at odds assuming we’re outbid for Sabathia/Teixeira as competing next year requires us then to target lesser free agents. Even #3 is at odds as we’d be forced to keep a Rule V pick on our roster all season when they probably would not contribute as much as someone else.
So yeah, we can do #4.
I'm With Wren.
Like I said, I like his approach. I think he did a very good job in the draft last year, he’s clearly a player in the Asian market and he’s cast a wide net of untouchable top prospects. He’s shown a willingness to take chances with minor league free agents and he hasn’t been allergic to the waiver wire. Trade rumors are just trade rumors until something actually happens, so I’ll wait until we acquire Peavy to judge the deal. I’ll continue to give Wren the benefit of the doubt until he screws up royally.
Personally, I think we can build a competative team this offseason, but it’s not easy or obvious. You’ve been on board with hardcore rebuilding for a while now, so we won’t see eye to eye. I think we can work on the shortterm without jeopardizing the longterm.
Here we go again: http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/
In hindsight it’s easy to say that the Glavine and Kotsay moves were stupid, but I believe the majority of the people on this board thought there were good at the time (maybe not Kotsay, I think most people were against that from the get go). The Glavine signing, however, made sense…just didn’t work out.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Nov 10, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. I think the popular opinion that we were able to contend in 2008 was correct, we had Teixeira, Smoltz, Hudson, and Hampton expected to produce for the team. In that situation, Kotsay and Glavine weren’t terrible pick-ups. Without those guys on the team, expecting to have contended in 2008 would’ve been extremely misguided.
Just wanted to make sure we’re still on the same page.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Nov 10, 2008 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
not me
i never liked that glavine move, but was okay with the kotsay one the problem with glavine was giving up a first round draft pick, and the fact that he looked terrible at the end of his tenure with the mets, and he’s friggin old. espn’s guy, who i don’t usually agree with, rated glavine as the poorest FA guy last year. he was right. that was an awful move, then and now.
by son.of.sourman on Nov 10, 2008 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough…alot of people hated the Kotsay move right off the bat (like me) and that turned out to be a bad idea as well. I’m still okay with the Glavine signing.
Not sure how he looked terrible at the end of his Met career. If you want to bitch about the last start of 2007 you’re on the wrong board. Go to Amazing Avenue, they still can’t get over it. He had 7 quality starts out of his last 11. That’s terrible?
Aug 5 – 6.1 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 1 K
Aug 11 – 6.1 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 5 K
Aug 17 – 7.0 IP, 8 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 6 K
Aug 23 – 5.0 IP, 11 H, 6 ER, 3 BB, 1 K
Aug 28 – 7.0 IP, 8 H, 0 ER, 0 BB, 1 K
Sep 2 – 6.0 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 3 BB, 2 K
Sep 8 – 7.0 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 4 K
Sep 14 – 7.2 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 0 K
Sep 20 – 5.0 IP, 11 H, 4 ER, 1 BB, 3 K
Sep 25 – 5.0 IP, 9 H, 6 ER, 1 BB, 4 K
Sep 30 – 0.1 IP, 5 H, 7 ER, 2 BB, 0 K
Oh, and his two starts on Jul 25 and Jul 31 were also of the quality variety. So…you’re wrong.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Nov 11, 2008 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
dead on 17843. we need to accumulate as many pitching prospects as possible. infante, gonzo, moylan (if healthy) would be trade candidates mid-season or this offseason in gonzo’s case. and if and only if he requested, chipper should be traded. tazawa would be my number one target on the free agent market, young, high upside though probably at the very least a year from being big-league ready. and this is not exactly textbook, but take some gambles on injury discounted players who if proved healthy, could be moved via mid-season trade for prospects (penny, prior, pavano, pedro, jennings, clement, alou, mulder). take a couple of gambles with incentive laden contracts wouldn’t sink a team if they didnt work out but the end result could net prospects (essentialy similar to kotsay this year but he isnt costing you prospects to acquire)
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