Although I’ve been looked at funny for saying Hicks could be in our future, I do think he’s got some serious potential. I know the Ks are there, but his glove is supposed to be very good already. If he reigns in the strikeouts, he could eventually be a vey good ML SS. But that’s the future.

For now, I like the idea of Renteria as a stopgap, quick fix. Obviously long term we need somebody to replace Escobar with above average defense at SS. If we get Peavey and another solid pitcher of #2 caliber quality, put Schafer in center, then it looks to me like the Braves will be returning to the winning formula – defense and pitching. A lot depends on how solid the rotation is, of course, but this seems to be a step in the right direction, and I definitely think that’s possible without Escobar. I wouldn’t lose any sleep over the trade you outlined; in fact, I’d be ecstatic.

In this scenario, who knows if we could seriously contend in 2009 – I think maybe. But beyond that certainly looks promising with Heyward and Freeman on the horizon. And if Hicks can catch his bat up with his glove at short, then we could really be in business.

Of course 2nd base could be a problem if we trade KJ for a LF, but we can work on that issue later…..Travis Jones long term or somebody else??

it’s Escobar, Gorkys, Morton and a lesser prospect. If that “lesser prospect” is Locke, than I think it is too much, but in the end I would probably pull the trigger.

My worry is now, we have created an additional hole wih the loss of Yunel at Shortstop. Do we fill that with another trade?

The farm system can only take so many trades. The deoth we have will dissapear if we continue to trade to fill holes. They need to take some risks on the free agent market.

Remember guys that Prince Fielder sat on Yunel early in the season and he was never 100% after that. His shoulder bothered him all year. Escobar didn’t have a bad season by any means, but I expect even more from a fully healthy Escobar. I think the problem is, management doesn’t like his cocky attitude. I can’t see why any team would want to trade a guy like Escobar when we have him locked up for 5 more years cheap.

promoted to front page

…but I’m of the thinking, and I used this in another thread. Credit goes to the USS Mariner.

the idea that a team has to have an established ace to contend is a load of crap

Not to mention, as much as I enjoyed Furcal and Renteria when they were here..they’re not worth the runs they would end up giving up with horrible range and declining skills at the plate. Why give up a good young and controllable shortstop, only to make yourself weaker at another position?

Because teams in contention don’t create giant, gaping holes in their major league team to fill another need. This isn’t one of those “ace away from the WS” situations so why are we young prospects and a major part of the team for an ace that will soon cost 75% of market value with an injury risk? Yeah you can sign free agents to fill needs, but trading several young pieces for older players while signing vets on the wrong side of 30 when you aren’t 1-2 pieces away from winning is what gets teams like the Yankees in trouble. It’s simply not the right time for the Braves to make a move like that and resources can be better spent on something else or banked even.

Jeff Francoeur sucks so he shouldn’t be compared to Yunel who’s actually good at baseball. I guess they both do have rocket arms.

At this point in their careers, Escobar is a better player than Furcal. What’s the best you can expect from a healthy Furcal? .290/.350/.440? Yunel pulled off .288/.366/.401 last season with a bum shoulder. Yunel is in his athletic prime while Furcal’s in decline. Yunel will definitely be better going forward and that’s just batting. In 2006, Furcal’s Plus/Minus was +7 and Yunel’s was +21. +21 is gold glove territory and the only player with a higher plus/minus than Yunel in 2008 was Rollins at +23. The only advantage Furcal has is the ability to steal bases, but he has around a 76% career success rate so his base stealing is far less useful than people think. And because shortstops are in such high demand right now, Furcal will be expensive because a ton of teams want him right now.

Renteria is no good anymore. The only times he’s been successful in his career is from high BABIP seasons. His range at shortstop was gone before the Braves even traded him.

You’re right than it wouldn’t be end of the world if Yunel was traded, but it still doesn’t make the trade a good idea. Aces are hard to find but so are elite defensive SS’s with a solid bat. Yunel’s probably the most underrated player on the team right now (with Kelly Johnson second).

Just because you have the money and the flexibility does not mean you need to make moves. I don’t like the idea of being tied down to several aging veteran contracts while trading young, cheap talent when we aren’t in a 1-2 pieces from the WS situation.

yeah i agree with Victor the comparisons between Frenchy and Yunel are slim if they are there at all. Yunel has a pretty good approach at the plate, he doesnt K very often and he is able to take walks. Two things Frenchy cant do.

Ok, so I probably have zero credibility at this point with TalkingChop readers after my last post suggesting the possibility of trading for Miguel Tejada to replace Yunel at shortstop. Let me clarify now that I do not think that is a beneficial move that the Braves should be looking at anyways.

I’m simply concerned, as is Atlanta’s potential acquisition Jake Peavy, about how Wren intends to fill the gaping hole at shortstop which would exist if indeed we end up dealing away Escobar.

I don’t see the Braves trading for a replacement at short. J.J. Hardy would be enticing, but the Brewers will probably ask for too much in return. Tejada is obviously not a good fit. Greene and his shortcomings were discussed at length earlier. Jack Wilson, Bobby Crosby, and Julio Lugo are not desirable either. All of these players would most likely fall short of providing league average production at the SS position.

Unfortunately, we don’t have any prospects in our minor league system that can step in and play short this season. Lillibridge struggled mightily between Richmond and Atlanta. And while Diory Hernandez is having a nice AFL season, it doesn’t sound like he’s ready to contribute at the major league level yet. And Brandon Hicks is a couple years away, and apparently is destined to play third anyway.

So that forces Wren to find a free agent replacement. However, we seem to be fixated on bringing back a former Brave, whether that’s Furcal or Renteria. But there are other options out on the FA market. Guys like Izturis, Uribe, Vazquez, and Eckstein are more of a liability and aren’t worth the effort. But a player like Orlando Cabrera seems to be just short of an ideal fit for Atlanta.

Cabrera just turned 34, and I think he would be satisfied with a 3-4 year deal, maybe at an average of $8 to $9 million per. I’m sure someone will point out that his production might fall off by that last year, but over the next three seasons he should provide some speed at the top of the order, combined with a .280/.335/.400 which is in line with his career #s, and excellent defense at a premium position. I’m sure guys like RainDelay, 17483, and ejruiz can offer up some stats to point out the holes in my argument. But the biggest advantage to signing Cabrera is the fact that we don’t have to deal anything from our farm system or give up a 1st round pick as compensation.

By no means am I suggesting that Orlando Cabrera = Yunel Escobar. There are a lot of reasons to keep a potential star SS like Yunel. But the opportunity to get a pitcher of Peavy’s caliber doesn’t come along often, and when they do, usually a big market team like New York, Boston, or LA jumps in and grabs them. I guess the easiest way to put this is that I believe the difference between Peavy and a FA starter(Lowe, Burnett, Dempster, Sheets, et al) is much bigger than the difference between Escobar and a FA like Cabrera.

Right there, you’ve got a 2.5 win difference in value, ignoring offensive contributions.

Even with league-average offense, Yunel’s 3.5 to 4 wins above replacement, which is a borderline All-Star. All that for next to free. Nobody should ever be untouchable in trade, but there’s no way another team will offer what he’s worth.