[Javier] Vazquez, 32, hasn't developed into a big winner but is second in the majors in innings and strikeouts since 2000. He has made 32-plus starts in nine consecutive seasons, including three in Chicago. That's why Williams says he'll deal him only if someone pays heavily to get him.
12 months ago
gondeee
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Kenny Williams may be right...
But if he is looking for a similar haul that the Padres are looking for for Peavy, he will have to downgrade. Vazquez is significantly older, etc. However, if the ChiSox include Dye in the deal, than the Braves could offer a serious package.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 25, 2008 9:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
It was rumored on November 5th that the Red Sox were offering Lugo for him, and the Mets were offering Castillo. A Peavy package it will not take to get this solid 3.
by TheSportsIdiot on Nov 25, 2008 10:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think you must be off here
How the hell do two very overpaid, sub-par players like Lugo and Castillo equate to one of the more durable and effective starters out there right now?
by get swoll yunel on Nov 25, 2008 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, it’s what was reported on November 5th, by the Chicago Tribune. Reading more into it, however, it seems like Dave van Dyck may have been making stuff up. So, I’m not off, but van Dyck might have been!
Lets not act like Javier is better than he is, either.
by TheSportsIdiot on Nov 25, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“Lets not act like Javier is better than he is, either.”
This. Sure, he’s durable, and his K rate is good, but he’s also prone to the gopherball and the big inning. That’s why his ERA is so high…when he allows baserunners he has the nasty tendency to let them score.
That being said, I wouldn’t be adverse to trading for him, but I sure as hell don’t want to give up anything on our ML roster for him and probably not any of our top 6-7 guys (Gorkys might be a good centerpiece if we don’t ship him to SD in a Peavy trade, as they’re looking for speed).
by soup du jour on Nov 25, 2008 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Vazquez is a lot better than people think.
If you look at stats that pitchers can control as opposed to things they can’t control to predict future performance, then you’ll see that he’s a much better pitcher than his ERA shows. FIP and tRA basically say he should be a 3.7 to 3.9 ERA guy and not the 4.67 ERA guy from last season. His BABIP and LOB% tend to be higher than his career norms on his high ERA seasons (which makes sense), and I think that’s a product of bad luck and questionable defense rather than his ability as a pitcher. Give him a league switch and improved defense and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 3.5 – 3.7 ERA from him.
by VictorW on Nov 26, 2008 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The guy is arguably more valuable than anything out in FA right now
…. other than CC Sabathia.
When you consider his age, durability. reasonable contract, and probable effectiveness pitching in the NL, he would be excellent option at the right price in a trade.
by get swoll yunel on Nov 25, 2008 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
More valuable than Sheets? I’d rather have Sheets. I have long soured on Javier.
by TheSportsIdiot on Nov 25, 2008 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You just said in the other topic (about AJ Burnett) that Sheets is “as injury prone as Mark Prior”.
Are you just fucking around?
by get swoll yunel on Nov 25, 2008 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I should've read you other reply, huh?
I’m not huge on any of the FA options personally.
They all have big red flags… but like others have stated, overpaying to land those guys is the nature of the beast.
by get swoll yunel on Nov 25, 2008 8:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hehehe
I love that you didn’t see it first? I’m a sarcastic bastard, and a complete Idiot.
The question with Sheets is why have I not heard anything about him in regards to any team whatsoever? Is he only arbitration eligible, or is he a FA?
by TheSportsIdiot on Nov 26, 2008 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a FA
I thought there’d be more buzz about Sheets too. Vazquez in the NL will perform about the same as Sheets and doesn’t have the injury risk. However, if we sign a FA and refuse to trade, Sheets would be my choice because he’d need less years/dollars than the other FA choices. Or just stand pat.
by VictorW on Nov 26, 2008 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he sounds like a solid pickup to me. not too many pitchers could say they have made at least 32 starts nine seasons in a row. he would be perfect to put behind peavy(maybe) and jurrjens. what do you guys think it would take to get him? or take to get him and dye??
by heap16 on Nov 25, 2008 10:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If we got Vazquez...
If we get Vazquez, than we wouldn’t get Peavy. He would slot in behind Jurrjens and Burnett/Lowe presumably. Considering how good he really is, he might slot ahead of either of them, in the 2 spot behind Jurrjens. It would make for one of the deeper rotations in the game.
A package of KJ, Gorkys, and Reyes should get both him AND Dye, though Kenny Williams apparently wants a young starter and “additional players” for just Dye (according to MLBTR). I think it shows how delusional some managers are. Apparently Ludwick’s asking price is similarly high, which is bordering on retarded.
by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 25, 2008 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol, i completely agree ludwicks asking price is way too high
by heap16 on Nov 25, 2008 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gorkys, A White Sox Trade, and the Future
I do not like that we are seemingly so willing to through Gorkys in these deals. There is a great chance that he does not pan out, but there is also a great chance that Schafer does not pan out. Gorkys has better speed and the potential to be a better lead off hitter than schafer. Personally, I would like to see us keep both. If they both pan out, why not an outfield of schafer, gorkys, heyward in a few years. I think we could make this White Sox deal happen with KJ, BJones, Anderson, Boyer, Morton or Reyes, and maybe one/two more lower level prospects. I like the idea of Vazquez and Dye bridging the gap.
If we can pick up Burnett or Lowe, I think we are set to be competitive for next year and bridge the gap to 2010. If we do not get Burnett or Lowe, with a resigning of Hampton, Smoltz, and Glavine (They wouldn’t come back unless they felt they can help the organization, so I think we should sign them if they want to come back) we should be ready to start the season. I’m starting to think Peavy will start the year with Padres, and will be moved by the all-star break. This gives us a chance to see if the elbow is really okay, and a competitive start gives us more leverage in the deal. Allowing Morton or Reyes to get some starts at the beginning of the year, would give them a chance to improve their stock (I don’t think it could hurt).
If we start out poorly and Morton or Reyes look awful, I do not think we are worse off in the Peavy situation. I am willing to wait until 2010 as long as we get this right. I don’t think we should panic and give up the future for Peavy or overpay for Burnett and Lowe. If the White Sox trade can be made with something close to what I’m proposing, I think we do the deal because Dye and Vazquez are solid players. Do you care more about the blockbuster signing or trade? Or, is a winning season what you care about? The White Sox trade assures us of more than the other moves because of Dye and Vazquez’s durability. With the youth movement looking strong, why should we get involved in these silly bidding wars.
by gutisking on Nov 25, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
very solid post +1…im not uite sold on these two as options, but im not opposed to it either
"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."
by Swo12bv on Nov 26, 2008 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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