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It seems there are really only three "ace" pitching options left for the Braves this off-season:


W-L G GS CG SHO SV BS IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP
2008 - Jake Peavy 10-11 27 27 1 0 0 0 173.2 146 57 55 17 59 166 2.85 1.18


W-L G GS CG SHO SV BS IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP
2008 - A.J. Burnett 18-10 35 34 1 0 0 0 221.1 211 109 100 19 86 231 4.07 1.34


W-L G GS CG SHO SV BS IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP
2008 - Derek Lowe 14-11 34 34 1 0 0 0 211.0 194 84 76 14 45 147 3.24 1.13

Who do you want?

Poll
At this point, which pitcher would you rather have?
Jake Peavy
219 votes
A.J. Burnett
97 votes
Derek Lowe
52 votes

368 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 24 comments

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Comments

Display:

Which would I rather have?

If anybody is being honest with themselves, they would RATHER have Jake Peavy. He is unquestionably the best of the bunch. HOWEVER, considering the cost in prospects and the loss of Yunel as well as the contract and questionable long-term health I do not want the Braves to trade for him. Therefore I would say that Burnett is the best fit for the Braves of the 3 considering all of the factors.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 24, 2008 9:59 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

You see questionable long-term health as a factor. But you don’t think this should block the Braves signing A.J. Burnett. He has never pitched 2 200 inning-season in a row. I don’t see why Burnett would stay healthy during a 4 or 5 year contract. With Jake Peavy the Braves would have a legitimate ace. He has been healthy most of the time the past seasons. I would love to see him anchor our staff. With Peavy of course there would be less money left for a LF and the other starting pitchers. This because of the fact the Braves might have to sign a SS although i would be fine going wit Lillibridge at the position.

by Dutch Braves Fan on Nov 24, 2008 10:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course...

Of Course Burnett is more of a health risk than Peavy. However, he only costs money. Peavy costs money and a boatload of prospects… That is all I am saying.

by Andy Braves Fan on Nov 24, 2008 11:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wouldn’t that make Lowe the preferred being that he would only cost money, probably less than the others, and is not a health risk?

by scstrato on Nov 24, 2008 12:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s actually a good point… one I hadn’t thought of regarding Lowe yet.

by gondeee on Nov 24, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If you’re talking about long term health issues, Burnett is the one you should be concerned about.

by soup du jour on Nov 24, 2008 10:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately, I don’t see the Braves getting any big FA pitcher. It looks like Tazawa is going to sign with Boston, the Braves won’t give Burnett 5 years (and I don’t see us beating the Yanks’ 4 yr-$81 mill offer, nor should we), and Lowe wants $16 mill a year for 4 years, which we also won’t/shouldn’t do. We NEED to make a trade, whether it’s for Peavy or whoever else; if we don’t, I think we’ll have another top 10 draft pick after next year.

by coldriver10 on Nov 24, 2008 10:19 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Some of the reasons I’m not really all that interested in Peavy:

- The aforementioned cost in terms of prospects and the gaping hole that will be SS.
- In his career, Peavy has a 2.77 ERA at home, but a 3.80 ERA on the road.
- Peavy has given up 47 homers at home, and 81 homers on the road – even though he’s pitched 100 more innings at home than on the road.
- Peavy’s strikeout rate was noticeably down in 2008, and his walk rate was noticeably up. After striking out more than a batter per inning from 2004-2007, Peavy only struck out 8.6 batters per nine this year – and only 8.2 per nine after returning from his elbow injury. Additionally, he walked over three batters per nine this year, after never walking more than 2.87 per nine from 2004-2007.
- Home ERA in 2008 – 1.74. Road ERA in 2008 – 4.28.

Seriously, if you take PetCo out of the equation Peavy’s numbers don’t exactly jump out at you. Yunel and a bunch of prospects for Peavy? I’d rather keep our SS and gamble on Burnett, especially if we throw an incentive laden contract at his buddy Brad Penny.

"Why do they sing 'Take Me Out To The Ballgame' when they're already there?'" - Larry Andersen

by HailStonz on Nov 24, 2008 11:02 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

heres the problem with people bringing up peavy’s road numbers as a reason for signing burnett.

peavy’s road ERA is 3.80. burnett’s career ERA? 3.81

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Nov 24, 2008 11:06 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

And then take a look at Lowe’s road ERA as a Dodger.

by gondeee on Nov 24, 2008 1:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

hell, look at his career road ERA. tsk tsk.

oh, and just for the hell of it, look at JJ’s career road ERA. SHENANIGANS~!!!!

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Nov 24, 2008 1:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Of the three...

I’d have Derek Lowe. Peavy is the best, Burnett is second best, but Lowe excels at not getting hurt. If we sign him for 4 years @ 16 mil a piece, we will get a pitcher for all 4 of those years. I know the other guys are good, but Lowe will be the best value. All we have to give up right now is money. We can’t afford to pay for a guy who gets hurt or trade away our starting position players without backups to replace them. With Lowe we risk very little, and spend about the same. My biggest complaint about Lowe is the whole Scott Boras thing, but Wren seems to know how to deal with him. Lowe adds 16mil to your salary, then I say sign someone to a one year deal like Randy Johnson, for say 10 mil. Then find yourself a free agent bat with the 14 mil that is left, think Dunn, Ibanez or Burrell. You probably won’t make it to the playoffs this year, but you haven’t lost or risked anything. But hell, with our luck Lowe will make 2 starts then visit Dr. Andrews.

by someguy917 on Nov 24, 2008 11:21 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

The idea of giving a 4 year, $60 million deal to a 35 year old scares me, despite the fact that Lowe’s been a workhorse throughout his career.

by coldriver10 on Nov 24, 2008 11:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think...

That Burnett is too risky, to give the same amount of money to over a longer time (more you have to depend on him) and Peavy costs too much in terms of players. If we can get Peavy without losing Schafer, Hanson, Yunel, Flowers, Heyward, Freeman or any of our other starting position players then do it, but the chances of that happening are far too low. On the lighter side, if we sign Lowe, we should hire Maddux (assuming he retires) to help him with his pitching, as Lowe claims Maddux helps him with his mechanics.

by someguy917 on Nov 24, 2008 11:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Forget about the Three

If Lowe wants a contract more than two years then pass on it. If Burnett doesnt take a 3 year/2 year club option then pass on him. If Towers doesn’t get a clue then move on. The problem is GM’s let the players and the market dictate terms. The Yankees screwed the market. None of these pitchers are worth what there asking for except CC and he didn’t ask for that kind of money. Yankees have given all pitchers the opportunity to ask for ridiculous contracts. If your 35 then sorry you don’t get anything more than 3 year contract. You will statiscally get worse every year. Not everyone can be Smoltz. If you are injury prone then you shoudl be treated as such. If your a liability then your contract should be structured as such. I hope Wren doesn’t cave in. This offseason will be the precursor for years to come. Chipper has two years max left. Keep your youth and flexibility.

Sign Sheets (Same risk factor as Burnett) cheaper cost, less years.
Sign Hampton (One Year)

Play the market for Garland, Perez, Wolf, Johnson, Penny, etc….Bargain Bin Prices.
Put Smoltz back in the Pen. Make one Trade for OF

Braves will contend again with that roster. They won’t make headlines every day but they’ll compete and have a chance.

by Charmin519 on Nov 24, 2008 12:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I like this idea...

The whole one trade and two signs. But I think Sheets is more of a gamble than Lowe and will end up costing about the same. Everything else I agree with 100%.

by someguy917 on Nov 24, 2008 2:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Javier Vazquez

Someone else mentioned this on another thread so credit to them. I didn’t even think about it before I saw them mention it. And, yes, Vazquez appears to be quietly available.

His peripherals over the last 3-4 years have been very good. 200 K’s and 200 IP the last two seasons. About a 3.9 FIP and a tRA in the low 4’s and high 3’s. Roughly glancing at the last 3 years, I’d say this is on par with Burnett and 85-90% of Peavy. Vazquez is owed $23M over 2009 and 2010. He’s made 32 or more starts every season for the last 9 years.

I can’t find any detailed analysis of his mechanics so I wish I could post something about that. I did download this youtube clip and look at it super slow. I’m no expert by any means, but what I understand from reading Chris O’Leary’s site is that you want your arm to be in the position that Maddux’s is in as your shoulder starts to turn. Basically forearm vertical and elbow below shoulder level. Vazquez looks to be pretty good. Definitely better than Burnett or Peavy because Vazquez has no inverted L or W or similar red flags that that O’Leary mentions on his site. I think this explains why Vazquez has been so healthy.

There is one small issue because he throws a slider about 22% of the time though so unless he pronates it, I wouldn’t be surprised if he had a TJ surgery out of the blue despite being healthy like Tim Hudson. Most pitchers don’t pronate their sliders, but some do like Clemens. The traditional way to throw a slider is supinated (turn the doorknob clockwise with your right hand) is what eats UCL ligaments that lead to TJ surgeries. I don’t think it’s a huge risk, but I don’t know. Either way, Vazquez has been healthier than Burnett and Peavy and isn’t 35 or 36 like Lowe. Plus he’s only a 2 year commitment.

Anyway I think Vazquez is the best target. I don’t think he’ll cost a boatload, and he’s good enough to be a weak ace or good 2 like Hudson is. If the Braves start targetting him now, I bet they could get a deal done out of the blue like Kenny Williams did with Swisher to the Yankees and at a good price. Would have been awesome if we could have gotten Swisher and Vazquez to fill two holes.

by VictorW on Nov 24, 2008 12:55 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I would absolutely take Vazquez over Peavy in a heartbeat. Cheaper, both moneywise and prospect-wise, and I don’t see Vazquez posing the same injury risk that Peavy does. I hate making mock trade proposals so I’m not even going to try, but I guarantee you that it would require much less to pry Vazquez from the Sox than it would Peavy from the Padres. The Sox have a fairly barren farm system that they’re attempting to rebuild, so they might not require the same type of major-league-ready talent that San Diego is demanding.

Also, just reading what Sox fans have to say about Vazquez, they say that he thrives in low-pressure situations and sort of crumbles in high-profile, high-pressure situations. That would make the Braves perfect for him. The media is basically non-existent, most of the fans are just families going to the ballpark to have a fun night, and I’m sure the locker room is generally pretty laid back.

by drdonkeypunch on Nov 24, 2008 1:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You read Bowman's mind.

Your on Par.

Mark Bowman reported in the Braves mail bag that wren has had multiple conversation with the South Side’s Kenny Williams. He speculates that Vazquez and Dye are subjects. What type of package do you think it would take to land both of these guys?

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=atl

by Charmin519 on Nov 24, 2008 1:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Derek Lowe

Derek Lowe: Just say no!

by Stephen in the UAE on Nov 24, 2008 12:55 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I know

my post above isn’t pretty but it’s what a GM getting paid the big bucks should do. Unless Wren has great conversations in the winter meeting then he’s going to do some type of version of my scenario.
 
 If a trade presents itself that’s benefits us then you take it. However, you can’t plan the future on what ifs. You take the facts that you have now and you make an educated decision. We shouldn’t spend our money just because we have it. If you only spend 30 Million then you put that money towards JJ, Escobar, Schafer, Hew, Locke, Hanson, draft picks, etc……

Secure the future. Long affordable contracts. It gives the braves so many options for 2010. It allows us to be in the driver seat for years to come. The example of moves I listed above will have the Braves competing. If we don’t compete then at the deadline you dump Hampton, KJ, Soriano, etc… and pick up talent. You have a surplus of funds again for the 2010 FA market and you have serious trading chips. n

by Charmin519 on Nov 24, 2008 12:56 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather have Lowe

He’s easily the least risky, and that lack of risk doesn’t come with a significant loss of performance – in a full, healthy season from all three, Lowe would be a little back of Peavy, but he would hold his own with Burnett if he doesn’t beat him outright. Going forward, Lowe may be the oldest, but the risk factors for the other two scare me a little.

by BraveBronco0121 on Nov 24, 2008 2:35 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Vote for Sheets

Over the last five years, Sheets and Burnett have made about the same number of starts. Sheets stats are superior. Burnett was 4th in ERA on his own team among starters and only just went over .500 winning percentage this year. I don’t see the fascination with him. Hudson has better percentages than Burnett in every catagory other than Ks and thats because Hudson is a sinker ball pitcher.

by braves99 on Nov 24, 2008 7:34 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

What about Greinke?

Not that I want to see him leave the Royals, but if he won’t sign this offseason…
Shanks article

We always did feel the same, We just saw it from a different point of view, Tangled up in blue.
-Bob Dylan

by Royal Kingdom on Nov 25, 2008 9:56 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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