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Furcal Still on Braves Radar; Escobar Still on the Trading Block

It was brought up a couple of weeks ago that the Atlanta Braves might have interest in former shortstop Rafael Furcal if they traded their current shortstop Yunel Escobar, and now this from Mark Bowman:

With their pursuit of Jake Peavy put on hold, the Braves don't know if they'll have a need to find a shortstop.  But if they eventually opt to deal shortstop Yunel Escobar, who was at the forefront of the Peavy negotiations, they'll likely attempt to lure Rafael Furcal back to Atlanta. 

That's the sense agent Paul Kinzer has gained through the multiple conversations he's had with the Braves about Furcal over the past week.  When he told his client about his initial contact with the Braves, Kinzer said Furcal was "shocked and excited."

I still don't like the possible decision to swap out a top-5 low-cost shorstop for a high-cost free agent shortstop and a high-cost pitcher acquired via trade, when we can keep the low cost shortstop and still sign a high-cost pitcher. I know it's all speculation at this point, but let's hope the Braves don't spend money this off-season for the sake of spending money. If we can't get the right pieces, then just wait until another opportunity comes along later this year or next off-season. We've got more questions than one year of free agency can answer anyway.

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Frank Wren worries me with his seeming indifference when it comes to trading our young SS.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Nov 17, 2008 8:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Wren sees what nobody else seems to want to...

That Yunel very well have peaked and his attitude is only going to cost him more and more OBP points as he shows up more and more umpires. Everybody seems to love Escobar and wants to keep him, but he’s not going to stay in the bigs unless he has a major attitude adjustment. Umps are going to squeeze the strike zone on him to the point he’ll end up looking worse at the plate than Francoeur. I’m afraid Escobar will be the Long Island Ducks shortstop in 4 or 5 years.

by Rhyno18 on Nov 17, 2008 9:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Did Wren see something no one else saw with Devine and Kotsay?

No reason to expect Yunel to be worse in 2009 that 2008.

by VictorW on Nov 17, 2008 10:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Calling him young is probably wrong since he’s 26, I’ll admit that…but saying that he peaked makes zero sense. Don’t players usually peak between ages 27-31? I’m not 100% sure on the exact years, so correct me if I’m wrong. And his walk rate increased in the past two seasons, so I’d hold my breath on the OBP comments until after this season.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Nov 17, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t have any experience as a general manager, but if I were one and I wanted Peavy, and I knew the people who had Peavy wanted Escobar, I would make it look like we were about to move Escobar, so they would either hurry or get desperate or both. This is 150% speculation, but worth saying. Also Furcal is not a bad player, just too expensive.

by someguy917 on Nov 17, 2008 9:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Good point. Didn’t think of that.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Nov 17, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If Wren is doing that...

…then he’s a bad-ass. I fully expect him to send some “associates” over to Towers’ mansion and make him an offer he can’t refuse. Kevin, lock up your horses!!!!

by buzzdeadwax on Nov 18, 2008 10:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just a thought...

wouldn’t Adam Everett be a better expenditure of resources than Furcal in the event of Escobar being dealt? I know he can’t hit, but he’s a defensive wizard. He’ll be dirt cheap, perhaps only 2-3 million a year tops, and the injury risk is roughly equal if not less with Everett.

It’s worth consideration. I’m still against moving Escobar, too.

by BraveBronco0121 on Nov 17, 2008 9:35 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

no. just no. forget you even said that.

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Nov 17, 2008 9:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

wow adam everett lol?
Lillibridge is probably a better version of him.

by SayHeyWerd on Nov 17, 2008 9:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

just for the hell of it:

ADAM EVERETT CAREER OPS: .601(with 7 years in the hitters paradise of houston)
BRENT LILLIBRIDGE ROOKIE YEAR OPS:: .576

soooooooo yeah.

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Nov 17, 2008 9:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I never said he could hit!

the dude can field like a madman, though.

Like I said – he’s cheap. He wouldn’t be if he could do anything with a bat.

by BraveBronco0121 on Nov 17, 2008 9:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Stop trying to get players we already have.

by someguy917 on Nov 17, 2008 10:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He's not the same Adam Everett

Injuries and age have caught up with him. But, yeah, he was the best defensive SS for good stretch.

by VictorW on Nov 17, 2008 10:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If you're considering Everett...

May as well consider, like John McDonald. He can’t hit either (.586 career OPS), but he’s probably almost as good as Everett defensively, and as sad as it sounds, he’d probably be even cheaper. Oh, he’s also got his own defensive highlight reel in Canadian “SportsCentre.”

You know what, screw Everett and McDonald. Let’s trade for Bobby Crosby.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Nov 18, 2008 8:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

trading Escobar would be so much easier if Lilibridge had just hit last year.

by jack dein on Nov 17, 2008 10:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

looking at lillibridge’s track record, it seems to indicate last year could have been somewhat of a fluke. he definately needs to continue to work hard but in judging prospects, most evaluators are most interested in seeing how they handle double A pitching. lillibridge has hit and hit well at double and triple a in the past. this by no means excludes him from criticism but i would by no means write him off just yet. i would expect a bounce back year in a big way from him

by jeg on Nov 18, 2008 2:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In all fairness

I think there’s some underestimation of just how good Everett has been defensively. From 2004 on, nobody at any position has been as valuable with the glove as Everett. Comparing Lillibridge to Everett defensively is almost like comparing Billy Butler to Albert Pujols at the plate – one has all the talent in the world but hasn’t done it consistently at this level, the other is one of the best ever. Everett has been that good in the field. He gives back a good chunk of it at the plate, but I’d wager a good sum that his cost per win above replacement will be about 50% or less than that of Furcal or Renteria.

by BraveBronco0121 on Nov 17, 2008 10:07 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Furcal vs Escobar

Obviously Furcal’s price tag is much higher, but that aside, is there any comparison? I like Yunel, and I’m glad he’s panned out. BUT, if he’s traded for an ace and the Braves sign Furcal, I think it’s a win-win. Sure that will be a lot of cash, BUT, barring injury, the Braves would have a legit #1, something they didn’t have last year after Smoltz went down and won’t/wouldn’t have in 2009 otherwise. Plus they would have a legit leadoff hitter!! Yunel is a solid #2 hitter, but Furcal is a legit leadoff hitter, something the team doesn’t currently have. Defensively, I think they are comparable so I don’t think they’d win/lose because of one or the other. Furcal as a hitter is more valuable to a team than Yunel. He’s just more dynamic.
All in all, it would be awesome to keep Escobar and get an ace or aces but if push came to shove, I’d be happy to see Furcal back in an ATL uniform and Peavy toeing the rubber every 5th day.

by NorCalAtlFan on Nov 18, 2008 12:15 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Why...

are Braves fans so nostalgic? Lets bring back Glavine! And Furcal! And Andruw Jones! Hey what about Greg Maddux!! Just let them go, and lets move on!

by jjcollins on Nov 18, 2008 12:18 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I agree. Glavine, and Smoltz are probably done. Although I think that Smoltz could still have a good season or two. Glavine should retire. He has a spot in the Hall of Fame locked up and why risk tainting a good career with another injury filled overall bad season. I was very happy when Jones left. I was sick of watching him strikeout and ground into double plays, and now we get to watch Francoeur do the same thing. I think Maddux is going to retire anyway. I gotta say though that if we do trade Escobar I would really like to see Furcal again I hated it when we lost him.

by jack dein on Nov 18, 2008 12:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i DO wanna bring andruw jones back, just for the epic trainwreck it would cause, and honestly…it would be soooooo funny seeing him flop around the field.

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Nov 18, 2008 10:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It has been a while since I’ve seen someone fall over in the batters box after a swinging K…

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Nov 18, 2008 11:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

Could it be that Wren is looking at signing Furcal first, then maybe trading Escobar in a package deal to acquire Grienke? Not saying I agree with it, but maybe he’s using it as a step towards a new infield? (Trade Esco for pitching, trade Johnson (+more?) for Ludwick?)

by jwrocks on Nov 18, 2008 9:54 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

A Healthy Furcal vs The Real Furcal

A healthy Furcal would be a really good asset for the Braves when he is on the field. He is an excellent defender-good club house guy-great lead off hitter. I think he could be one of the guys who is worth the money spent…..IF….he is healthy. That isn’t a given.

He was out a good bit last year for health reasons and has always been something of a health risk. If the Braves are going to spend the money to bring in a SS when they have guys like Escobar, Lillibridge, and Infante on their bench they need to be certain that this guy is going to be able to contribute and play. The Braves are desperate for offense. You can’t spend that much money on a free agent that is likely to be out for large chunks of time during the season. They would be better off spending that money to go after a LF (the idea of Ibanez is becoming more attractive to me these days on a 2 year deal). If they were to sign a middle of the order LF and traded Escobar you would see someone like a Lillibridge batting 8th-which is fine. The Braves would have SOME offense at the other spots in the line up and could handle a weaker hitter with speed in the #8 spot. I personally like to see someone with speed in the # 8 spot as it gives you a little more variety as to how you approach the pitcher’s AB. If you put Lillibridge in the #8 spot and let him run I think he could swipe 20+ SBs and give the opposing pitcher some challenges when going after our pitchers.

by calbers on Nov 18, 2008 12:49 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Overrating Our Guys.

Escobar was 13th among ML shortstops (10th in the NL) in VORP; that’s certainly very good, but not top-five as has been stated. Interestingly enough, Rafael Furcal was #12 despite getting only 164 AB (roughly 28% of Yunel’s 587). Your next post indicates the dawning reality that teams are still overpaying for free agent pitchers (the Cubs got Dempster at 4/$52M and the Yanks are up to 5/$80M on Burnett already) so perhaps you’ve moved beyond this point already. The truth is, if we intended to get a frontline starter or two, we may have to overpay one way or the other, and trading a quality player like Yunel may be the way to go. I hate it, but it’s the way the game is being played.

Here we go again: http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/

by ejruiz on Nov 18, 2008 1:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don't envy Wren

This off-season is like some giant Rube Goldberg machine, dozens of moving parts which change every day. I think he honestly doesn’t want to gut our system, but the pressure to get a couple of big names must be enormous. Yunel is a terrific player, but we have an adequate replacement in Lillibridge. KJ is a terrific player, but we have an adequate replacement in Prado. With Infante around, we can patch together a good infield every day.

The problem is, we need both a slugging LF and probably two starting pitchers. It looks like we won’t find them in FA, so we will have to trade. It’s going to be painful, no matter what happens.

by Mekons5 on Nov 18, 2008 1:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I understand the concern

but I would caution that it’s a long off-season, there’s still plenty of time to land an FA (or 2). We ALL want Wren to take care of business quickly, but realistically it may be January/February before all the pieces fall into place.

by scstrato on Nov 18, 2008 1:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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