So an Idea after the Peavy Fallthrough....

by bravesbeast1985 on Nov 14, 2008 11:05 PM EST

I was reading alot of the comments over at MLBTR, and alot of the Posters were talking about how excited they were that we were focusing on free agents because we were going to sign two big names on the free agent market.....and that got me to thinking.

Next year, in 2009, the braves have already shown what type of focus the team wants to have, and that is for the long term. That is why I think our Front Office wants to view next year as the first step in the process toward being in contention, and are not going all in for it. We have two major advantages going for us that should allow for us to not take as long as it would take other franchises to get back to being contenders....We have a deep quality farm system, and already have some nice young talent who has shown major league success.

With all this being said, my concern is that the braves in now way should sign two of these 5 pitchers this offseason as many fans want to happen....

AJ Burnett

Derek Lowe

Ryan Dempster

Ben Sheets

Oliver Perez

The reason that we should not sign two of these five is two fold....for one, each pitcher comes with legit red flags, and signing two would take up 30 million of our available 40 million, and we would then have only ten million to sign a powerhitter, Smoltz, a left reliever, Glavine, hampton, and so on.

If we sign one, hopefully Burnett at 15 mill per, or Lowe or Dempster at 13 mill per, we would then have a nice one-two combo in that pitcher and JJ. We would then have hudson coming back in August and could ease him in as September and the Offseason came around, and would have the pitcher we sign and Hudson and JJ to make a nice foundation for our rotation in 2010 and beyond.

Here is my suggestion as far the second pitching option that we want to feel, and that would be via a trade for a young, controllable pitcher with upside who has shown glimpses of success in the majors. I am not Considering the Peavys, Vazquezs, Arroyos, or Harangs of the world has they come with red flags and high price tags as well. nor the Cains, Greinkes, or gutheries, as they would cost too much in prospects,

As a result, here is my suggestions as targets for the braves to go after in terms of a trade that would help our team.....

Jonathan Sanchez

Chris Young

Ian Snell

Jeff Francis

Paul Maholm

Jesse Litsch

Clay Bucholz

Justin Masterson

Andy Sonnastine

Edwin Jackson

Brian Bannister

Nick Blackburn

Glen Perkins

Jeff Neiman

Homer Bailey

Dustin Mcgowan

Shaun Marcum

Jeremy Bonderman

These are just some suggestions as too who we could go out and add to our rotation, as they could prove us with a number 3 in 09 and then add quality depth in 10 once the braves are ready to make some serious runs again. We could also have the ability to bring Hanson along at a comfortable pace, and let JoJo and Morton have mroe time to develop at triple A.

Just wanted to see yalls suggestions about who we could target besides the above mentioned examples, and what yall thought of this idea. We would have the money to effectively answer more of our other needs for a few years, and it never hurts to save mone for expected arbitrations and hopeful extensions as we head into the future.

This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.

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Comments

It's an interesting thought...

though I don’t see any team chomping at the bit to trade young, controllable pitchers with upside. The best hope may well be Grienke from KC, as the GM there seems to have a mancrush on Francoeur.

by BraveBronco0121 on Nov 14, 2008 11:17 PM EST reply actions

This is why....

We might be inclined to hold discussions with those teams who have a surplus of young pitching, such as

The Rays, Giants, Twins, Blue Jays, Pirates, Red Sox, and so on

by bravesbeast1985 on Nov 14, 2008 11:25 PM EST reply actions

I'm not opposed to talking about it with those teams

but I doubt they’ll move anyone who we can reasonably assume will make a competent starter next year. Homer Bailey may well have worn out his welcome with the Reds, but right now I wouldn’t even give up one C-level prospect for him. The guy is like Nuke LaLoosh minus Crash Davis. Edwin Jackson is hardly as good as this year suggests and is probably just back of the rotation filler, something we have enough of already. Brian Bannister is pretty much a #4 at best. Bonderman is just as injury prone as Burnett or Sheets but nowhere near as good. Bucholz is simply too good for the Sox to just give up on without serious prospects in return. The Pirates are probably smart enough to hold on to their young hurlers.

It’s worth a shot, I just wouldn’t expect that tree to bear fruit.

by BraveBronco0121 on Nov 14, 2008 11:32 PM EST up reply actions

I agree with you 100%…I’d much rather have a young guy with lots of potential and some major league success, and I’m hoping Wren is exploring all options. Two guys you didn’t mention that I’d love to take a look at are Scott Baker and Kevin Slowey.

Also, what about signing Randy Johnson to a one or two year deal? By that point, hopefully some of our minor leaguers will be ready to step into the rotation.

by coldriver10 on Nov 14, 2008 11:31 PM EST reply actions

This is a good idea

Except a few of these guys on the list are just flat out not going to get traded like Masterson or especially Bucholz, Francis and Sanchez. Cause there is no way we give up what their price tag will be. But this is the nice way to go about it and as you said way to go Wren for sticking to your guns and the farm system that is in place.

by H0SS on Nov 14, 2008 11:35 PM EST reply actions

Well....

I can understand your point that some may not be traded, but they are worth talking about, and again when trading with a team who has too many arms and not enough slots, you may get a good arm at a discount. Oh, and scott baker and kevin slowey are not mentioned because they would cost the same type of prospect tag it would take to get cain or greinke.

by bravesbeast1985 on Nov 14, 2008 11:40 PM EST reply actions

Wow, slowey’s value might be remotely close to greinke’s but nowhere near cain’s. and baker is a cut below that trio entirely. ryan rowland-smith of SEA is another young starter we should consider. lets not overpay for burnett and dempster, those two are wildly inconsistant, not to mention burnett has had some other issues concerning makeup. if we are going to delve into the free agent market, find value. randy johnson should be a target, good production (albeit not a sure thing health wise) relative to cost. lets hope ted turner can raise those dollars to buy the braves back

by jeg on Nov 15, 2008 12:53 AM EST reply actions

Agreed on RJ

he should come cheaper than the rest and, if healthy, can still be a #2 starter. Burnett’s performance isn’t nearly as inconsistent as you may think – healthy Burnett is an ace, injured Burnett is pretty damn close to an ace when he can take the mound. If we can get him for something in the neighborhood of 2 years/32 million with a team option for a third, I would jump on it, but I have a feeling someone will give him a four year deal.

by BraveBronco0121 on Nov 15, 2008 1:14 AM EST up reply actions

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burnea.01.shtml
he has ace stuff but the command of a back end starter. hes had two seasons in his entire career where he was even remotely close to being an “ace” starter and the last one was in 2005. hes talented but unreliable. hes looking for a 5 year deal and has already turned down what was essentially a 4 year, $54 million offer from the blue jays. and the yankees will push the enveloped even further. if we are signing a pitcher with a history of getting injured, sheets will be cheaper, require fewer years, and is an actual ace when he is healthy. id take the gamble on sheets, sign RJ for around 9M (should be in line for his 300th W this year), and maybe even F. Garcia.

by jeg on Nov 15, 2008 1:58 AM EST reply actions

Sure, Burnett walks a few too many guys

what else does he do wrong? Not really anything else – his stuff is nasty, he doesn’t have a longball problem, and gets 50% ground balls. So yeah, I think that when he’s healthy Burnett is definitely an ace. I doubt we sign him to a deal that is favorable for us, but oh well. I don’t think a long term deal is worth it with his inability to stay healthy.

by BraveBronco0121 on Nov 15, 2008 2:10 AM EST up reply actions

BTW, Tim Lincecum walked almost as many batters per nine as Burnett this year

Granted, he’s better everywhere else, but I don’t think that giving up walks is a dealbreaker if the whole package is good.

by BraveBronco0121 on Nov 15, 2008 2:12 AM EST up reply actions

no, walks arent a deal breaker and you can be successful as aj has been at times. he has the raw stuff to be one of the top perfomers in the league but his command and injuries have held him back. maybe its just a differing opinion of what an “ace” is. he surely could be the best pitcher on a staff but there maybe ten true “aces” in baseball in a given year. burnett’s results when he has been healthy arent up to the level of santana’s, sabathia’s, lincecum’s, halladay’s, peavy’s, webb’s, hamels’, oswalt’s, and so forth. he could explode and live up to his potential but given his track record, he seems more likely to implode.

by jeg on Nov 15, 2008 2:30 AM EST reply actions

Problems In Logic.

If we sign two fo Burnett, Lowe and Dempster, we will not need to bring back Hampton, Glavine and perhaps not even Smoltz. That leaves us with a rotation of Burnett/Lowe/Dempster, Burnett/Lowe/Dempster, Jurrjens, Campillo and Morton/Reyes to start 2009 and then Burnett/Lowe/Dempster, Burnett/Lowe/Dempster, Jurrjens, Hudson and Hanson for 2009. Now that the Peavy deal is dead, why not just move on to trying to get Ryan Ludwick from the Cards (for Kelly and change, maybe) to fill the LF void rather cheaply, leaving us with plenty of payroll space to sign a lefty reliever (Ohman?) and a quality pinch hitter (Norton?).

Here we go again: http://thefulldeck.blogspot.com/

by ejruiz on Nov 15, 2008 6:12 AM EST reply actions

Typo?

Did you mean to say Burnett/Lowe/Dempster, Burnett/Lowe/Dempster, Jurrjens, Hudson and Hanson for 2010? And by the way, that has the potential to be an awesome rotation….almost ridiculously overpowering!

by secondbass on Nov 15, 2008 7:18 AM EST up reply actions

Those are some decent points...

That is another way to look at it. My biggest concern is just that we would then have two contracts of paying nearly 15 million to pitchers whom each have red flags associated with them, and then we would also have them on multiple contracts. We also have to consider the jump in Ludwicks salary, as well as the aspect of rather Ohman will sign with us, and also the fact that smoltz may not take a 3 to 5 million dollar deal if that is all we can offer him. I definately understand your point, I was just wanting to consider the above mentioned moves in my post because they would save us money while providing us with a young pitcher who may give us good production and not cost much in terms of prospects.

by bravesbeast1985 on Nov 15, 2008 6:29 AM EST reply actions

2 names off that list

Take Paul Maholm off that list, he wont be traded. He is the one piece the pirates want to build around.

Take Clay Bucholtz off that list, because well, he sucks.

Can probably take Dustin McGowan off that list after coming off arm surgery last year too.

I would love to get Sonnastine. I think he can be had for a reasonable offer. Also, I wonder where we are with that Japanese pitcher?

by BillBrasky on Nov 15, 2008 7:46 AM EST reply actions

Tazawa can’t be traded until he completes a tournament, so look for more on him in December.

by someguy917 on Nov 15, 2008 10:19 AM EST up reply actions

Agree but................

I like the idea of going after young pitchers. If the oppurtunity presents it self and we dont have to give up alot for it, go for it. But just like the Braves are doing, all teams are hesitant on giving up on young cheap talent. Even if we sign Burnett, we still have long ways to go. Burnett is a solid number 2 pitcher in my book. We still need an Ace.

by AlRoBraves95 on Nov 15, 2008 12:14 PM EST reply actions