If it's gonna happen, it's gotta happen soon
by gondeee on Nov 11, 2008 9:12 AM EST
in Braves Trade News
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PrintAnxiousness and getting fed up... it describes the way most Braves fans feel about these Jake Peavy trade talks, and apparently it is the way Braves management is beginning to feel as well. From Ken Rosenthal:
The Braves are getting fed up.
After trying for more than a month to acquire Padres right-hander Jake Peavy, the team is beginning to explore other options, major-league sources say.
The Braves would still take Peavy, mind you. But they have informed the Padres that they could shift course rapidly once the free-agent market opens on Friday.
The Padres regrouped Monday and sent revised proposals to both the Braves and Cubs, according to one source. Officials from both teams, however, insist that their offers are not likely to change.
The party line from the Padres is that they are in no hurry to move Peavy and will keep him if they do not receive the right combination of players.
Others, however, speculate that the Padres' front office might be in disarray — speculation that only figures to gain momentum now that the team is parting with Hoffman.
Owner John Moores is going through a divorce and could sell the club. Club president Sandy Alderson says the payroll could be as low as $40 million. The front office, frequently described as "top heavy," includes a wide range of opinions.
Then again, in the case of Peavy, the Padres might simply be waiting to the last possible moment to make the best possible deal.
The risk in that strategy is that it might cost them the players the Braves are willing to trade for Peavy — shortstop Yunel Escobar, either right-hander Charlie Morton or left-hander Jo Jo Reyes and either center fielder Gorkys Hernandez or Jordan Schaefer.
The Cubs might be offering a more established pitcher, left-hander Sean Marshall and perhaps a top prospect of their own, Class A third baseman Josh Vitters. But Escobar likely is the best player in either team's proposal, and the Cubs cannot give the Padres a center fielder as promising as Hernandez or Schaefer.
Still, the Padres obviously are intrigued by the Cubs' package; otherwise, they already would have traded Peavy to the Braves.
I keep waiting for the news to come that the trade has been made. The two trades yesterday -- the Holliday trade between the A's and Rockies and the Olsen trade between the Nats and Fish -- made me think that the ball will get rolling on more and more deals. Sometimes it seems like the teams are waiting for that first deal to get done, and then everyone can start wheeling and dealing.
I'm ready to have Jake Peavy on the Braves, and I've resigned myself to the fact that Yunel Escobar will have to be traded. Let's just get this done.
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I see Randy Johnson was mentioned in that piece as well. Arizona doesn’t want to pay him anything, why not take a flyer on him? Cheap option, he’s a gamer, and he’d win game #300 in ATL. He’s still a very effective pitcher, barring injuries. I think I just answered my own question there.
The Tale of Two Randy's
1st half: 98 IP, 110 H, 15 HR, 28 BB, 95 K, 5.23 ERA, 1.41 WHIP
2nd half: 86 IP, 74 H, 9 HR, 16 BB, 78 K, 2.41 ERA, 1.05 WHIP
He really locked in during the 2nd half. I’d be weary about his back issues (we didn’t have much luck with Kotsay), but if the price is right I’d love to have his ugly mug in my rotation.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Nov 11, 2008 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
I still have hope...
…that the Braves will be able to make this deal AND keep Yunel. Although that hope is fleeting. The longer this drags on the more I think the Braves might retract some of their more generous offers in order to speed up the process. If the Braves and Cubs begin to get tired of the Pad’s shuffling their feet (which they obviously have) then they will have to look into other offers with other players. This could result in a deal to another team including KJ which I believe the Braves would much rather move since they have Prado ready to step in. They have said that they don’t want to move KJ and Yunel both. So if a deal involving Kelly looks really good to them and they decide to move I think Yunel will stay put and the Braves will try to sweeten the deal with more prospects.
Kind of feels like
Remember how many thought that trading Mark Teixeira would get us a Conor Jackson-esque ML-ready 1B, and several prospects? And in the end, it turned out to be “only” Casey Kotchman and one relief pitching prospect? That’s what it feels like with the Peavy situation, to me.
Scenarios:
• Padres are in ownership hell with the Moores family divorce
• Padres appear to be dumping salaries
• Padres want to trade Peavy (and/with Khalil Greene) for lower-cost players, pitchers and prospects
• Peavy’s no-trade clause gives him final say, but his reasonable salary is still more than the Padres want to be responsible for.
• Peavy and agent Barry Axelrod are making the situation a lot more complicated than it an ordinary trade talk.
Bottom line is that the longer this draws out, the less the Padres will be willing to take, as a degree of desperation (letting Trevor Hoffman walk) will eventually set in to unload the salaries of Peavy and Greene. There will probably be several compromises in this situation, such as the Braves keeping Escobar (sweet) to appease Peavy, but the Braves might have to eat Peavy’s no-trade clause. If the Teixeira-like scenario comes to fruition, I’d love to see something like this:
Brent Lillibridge, Jo-Jo Reyes, B. jönes/Anderson/Blanco, relief prospect
for Jake Peavy. But we have to accept the no-trade clause, but we get to keep Yunel Escobar.
Maybe it won’t be that extreme of a hose-job, but I just think that the longer it draws out, the better it gets for the Braves, which subsequently is better for Peavy. Us as Braves fans aren’t the only ones tired of it, Padres fans are tired of it, and you’d have to imagine that the actual parties involved might be tiring of it too. Hopefully in the end, there will be some happy parties. Take Peavy, and let them unload Greene’s salary onto someone else. The Red Sox come to mind for a pull-happy right-handed shortstop.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Jed Lowrie rakes from the right side of the dish (although only in 80 ABs). Not sure if the .934 OPS he posted in limited action corresponds to his minor league numbers, but his .653 OPS against RH pitchers is his problem. Don’t think they would really need Greene.
If we could someone get Peavy without giving up Yunel I would be thrilled.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Nov 11, 2008 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Just sayin’ is all. Boston loves home-run hitters, and Greene can launch them over the Monster potentially. I like Lowrie as the future, but the Red Sox haven’t had a multi-year SS since Nomar (lol). Who’s to say they won’t make the mistake of taking Khalil just because he’s available? In the end, I don’t really care where Greene ends up, as long as it’s not in Atlanta.
I think the longer this drags out, the better chance we have to get Peavy without losing Yunel. I too would be quite thrilled if that is the end result.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
I agree, to a point. I can see this turning into a situation similar to what happened with the Twins and Santana. Basically they (MIN) got greedy and didn’t take the best offer when it was available. Towers is headed in the same direction … he knows our offer is the best right now and he’s playing games to try and get that one more piece. Where I disagree is, I feel it will be some other team that benefits from this.
If I’m Wren, I pull Yunel out of the deal RIGHT NOW. I submit a different deal with 4 or 5 prospects that are considered depth guys (maybe keep a Morton or KJ in there as well) and say take it or leave it. You have until Friday 9AM! Once Friday hits my offer drops to Morton, Flowers and Locke and is only available until we sign an FA.
No to Lilli
I think your scenario would be more feasible if KJ is substituted for Yunel and not Lillibridge. There is no way San Diego comes out of this deal without either KJ or Yunel.
Much like the Teixeira to Arizona scenario
There was no way we were supposed to come out of that without Conor Jackson, or even Chad Tracy. Basically the point is that the longer the Padres wait, the more it can only hurt them in these trade talks. Peavy wants Escobar to stay, and the Padres will want a cheap Shortstop (Kazmar and Rodriguez were a little too raw, seemingly for them) to plug the hole for if and when they dump Khalil Greene’s salary, hence me listing Lillibridge in the first place.
I agree that Johnson would be better than Lillibridge, but my example scenario is more about patching holes than taking the better player, and emphasizing the lesser deal they may have to settle with, just to avoid paying for Peavy (and Greene).
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
If I were a Padres fan,
and Towers took the Braves’ organizational junk (JoJo, Lili, B. Jones) for Peavy, his head would be on a stick at homeplate of Petco.
by buzzdeadwax on Nov 12, 2008 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
I'm sure it would be
But how often do trades made out of financial necessity actually result in two happy organizations (and their ensuing fan bases) in the end?
I concur with you 100% on your statement, but given the Padres’ position in this entire situation, they’re the most likely to get the short end of the stick. My theoretical trade at least gives them cheap stop-gap and mostly unproven solutions to patch their own organizational holes if the trade were to go down. Who knows, maybe Peavy will blow out his elbow for the Braves on opening day, and Jo-Jo Reyes flourishes in PETCO’s vast outfield. It’s all a crap shoot.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
We all remember Millwood for Estrada
This one sort of prooves your point. Even though Estrada was a pretty good and cheap catcher for 1-2 seasons, Millwood was a very good pitcher at the time he was traded.
I’m against moving Yunel and Schafer in the same deal, even if it is for Peavy. A deal including Yunel and Gorkys is more to my liking, but the thought of that hole at SS is not to my liking.
Still very much on the fence about this.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Nov 11, 2008 12:12 PM EST reply actions
Note to Frank Wren
Time to move on! This is coming from the biggest proponent for acquiring Peavy. Clearly the Padres have every intention of dragging this out as long as possible. They ARE going to trade him in my opinion, they have to, so call their bluff. Let them settle for a subpar offer from the Cubs, serves them right for playing games. Pull our offers and move on to to other things. They will likely come back around, but if they don’t then so be it. You tried, and you did it the correct way by making sure we didn’t part with our most valuable pieces – well, except for Yunel. Braves fans will not desert you for not landing Peavy, so it’s time to start focusing on other options.
+1
we seem to be the only buyers. Wait the Padres out.
by BraveBronco0121 on Nov 11, 2008 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
cubs are getting a third team involved in the deal
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
It should be the A's
So we can get Bobby Crosby.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
if anyone other than you said this, my head would be exploding. but since its you, i’m laughing.
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
I glanced at his stat page and saw .349 and thought “huh, that’s not a bad OBP he had last season”. Then I realized it was his SLG. Yikes.
I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.
by Smoltz's Beard on Nov 11, 2008 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
I don't feel they have any young pitching to offer the Padres
so realistically, I think we are the only buyers right now. And anyways, if the Cubs do get him, I won’t be too disappointed as I’ve never really liked this trade!
by BraveBronco0121 on Nov 11, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Yunel will be included in the package no matter who else is there. We have absolutely zero chance of getting Peavy without including Yunel.
Isn’t Peavy adamant about blocking a trade to the Braves unless Yunel stays? He’s the one with the final say. I think if Yunel is requested by the Padres, Peeevs is going to block it. I think they may have to settle with Lillibridge or another prospect to get their requested SS.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
he’s not adamant, he’s just more along the lines of “you’d better have someone to replace him that doesn’t suck, because trading a starter for me is kinda stupid”
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
It’s believed that Atlanta and San Diego have agreed on the two main pieces the Padres would get back: Yunel Escobar and Gorkys Hernandez. They’re also supposed to get a young pitcher, possibly Charlie Morton, as a third player, but it looks like they want one more to perhaps seal the deal.
everything i’m indicating is that the sticking point is the third player: braves wanna give up morton or reyes, padres want locke. nothing is indicating theres a fourth guy. how about we meet them in the middle, and throw out…i dunno, edgar osuna?
Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.
Too many rumors to say that
Point being, if Mark Bowman is to be believe it’s the third player period. The way I read this the Braves feel Yunel and Gorkys is enough.
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