Put Yourself in Frank Wren's Shoes

by bbdbrandon on Oct 21, 2008 3:16 PM EDT Comment 64 comments

That's exactly what I begin to do at The Outsider's Look as I continue a series entitled 'What Would the Outsider Do?' Some (most) may be thrilled that I am not in a position to make the moves that I suggest. Some may even classify this as 'spamming'. The last certainly should not be the case. Rather, I am looking to the fans of specific teams to join in with the discussion...

That said, check out what I've written at TheOLIB and let me know what you would have done. Either a different approach, a similar one, or otherwise.

What do you think of my trade for Eric Byrnes? Possible?

How about the other ideas of acquiring Covelli Crisp and Paul Maholm?

Is there any interest in Ryan Dempster?

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you’re advocating trading our closer for a player that sucks. you’re advocating trading a very raw pitcher with very good stuff for a guy who parlayed one good year into an obscene contract and is a below average player for his career. DOES NOT COMPUTE.

the only part of this i liked was the maholm proposition.

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Oct 21, 2008 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sorry...

Crisp sucks? While Crisp isn’t going to win any Silver Slugger awards, he’s a drastic improvement over what the Braves have in center. Considering how weak the CF market is, a trade is the only way to go.

While trading Gonzalez may feel like a steep price, keep in mind that I am suggesting that if Gonzalez shows an unwillingness to sign an extension, something that should be known around KRod’s deal. Furthermore, the trade is on the heels of having Smoltz and Soriano healthy. Would the Braves bullpen truly suffer if Smoltz was closing games instead of Gonzalez?

As for Byrnes, he actually parlayed two good seasons into a below market extension. Actually, Byrnes, as a starter, has been essentially the same player each year of his career.

I can understand holding off on moving Locke. I see him as more of a middle/end of rotation starter, but its still very early for that proclamation either way.

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by bbdbrandon on Oct 21, 2008 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’d rather play the current version of Schafer in center than have to give up anything for Crisp.

I do agree with bigjoe that it would be nice to have Maholm, though.

by VegasAces on Oct 21, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Currect Version of Schafer?

Is this a nickname for someone?

Schafer wasn’t overly impressive in double A and while he still may be a fine MLer, he would presumably struggle in his rookie year, especially without any time above triple A.

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by bbdbrandon on Oct 21, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, I mean THE Jordan Schafer

The “current version” was meant to indicate that, yeah, he might struggle, and he’s nowhere near his potential, but he may as well learn on the job. If he really stinks up the joint, Blanco or Anderson can step in.

Why spend money on Crisp when we have a superstar in waiting (who just might break out next year, stranger things have happened) and two cheap options as fallbacks?

by VegasAces on Oct 22, 2008 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

byrnes has a career OPS of 771, which is horrendous for a corner OF. crisp’s OPS is even LOWER, but at least you’re not throwing him in a corner. teams don’t win baseball games when your 3 outfielders have OPSes under 800.

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Oct 21, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

also, byrnes is making 11 million over the next 2 years. why not pay 4 million a year more for dunn or burrell and actually get some power?

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Oct 21, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

4 million more...

over the next 5-7 seasons compared to 2?

while giving up picks that would be equal to, or higher then the prospects i suggest moving for byrnes?

while you are at it, you are invariably blocking the paths of heyward, schafer, and hernandez. unlike byrnes, who would be on his way out as those players were on their way in.

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by bbdbrandon on Oct 21, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i would...

have byrnes in center. he may be a little bit stretched, but i’m sure he’d be fine…

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by bbdbrandon on Oct 21, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, no

a thousand times no.

by VegasAces on Oct 22, 2008 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If I Were you I Wouldn't Quit my Day Job

Whoever proposed this approach to the off-season, where the Braves have $45 million to spend and wonderful prospects to trade, is out of their mind. This person mentioned acquiring:
-Injury prone and expensive Byrnes
-Crappy CoCo Crisp [trade Gonzo????]
-Dempster (first year as a starter & he will certainly demand over 12 mil. on the FA market)

ALL HORRENDOUS MOVES:
Aside from the enthusiastic and descent analysis, these so-called “moves” would clearly keep us out of contention until we eventually receive the fruits of our expansive farm system.

IF I WERE THE GM:
-Trade Brandon Jones, Flowers, and a pitching prospect for Jermaine Dye (great power, and will fill the OF position for 2 years until our Big-3 [corky, schafer, & Heyward] are ready) [10 mil]
-Promote Josh Anderson to lead-off hitter and CF until one of the Big-3 are ready
*He has batted 300 over his experience in the majors, and has base stealing potential
-Re-sign Ohman [Bullpen —>Soriano, Ohman, and Gonzo = AMAZING] (5 mil)
-Re-sign Smoltz as a number 4 pitcher for us (5 mil)
-Trade other prospects other than the big-3 and Freeman for Jon Garland to fill the number 2 whole (add 5 mil)
-Sign CC (20 mil)

***These moves are all hypothetical, but these moves are not only realistic, but will allow the Braves to not only be contenders this year, but not destroy our young farm system.

Our Team:
Anderson, Yunel, Chip, Dye, McCann, Kotch, French, KJ
Pitching—> CC, Jair, Garland, Smoltz, Campillo
BP—> Moylan, Ohman, Soriano, Gonzo

What do you think??
Keep in mind we keep: Freeman, Heyward, Corkys, Schafer, Hanson and have a formidable staff till these propsects are ready for the big leagues

by IMISSANRDUW on Oct 21, 2008 3:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i was with you until you mentioned jermaine dye. and then you went and mentioned jon garland and lost all credibility. THEN you called anderson the answer at center field. YIKES. start jordan

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Oct 21, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with you...

….I was interested until Jermaine Dye was brought up. Oh, and Garland just adds to it. Anderson is good as a 4th outfield guy – no more. He could be passable for a season, but he’ll get figured out and when you’re all speed no power on a team that doesn’t run much – you’re not of much use.

And what is with peoples love affair with Garland?

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by RainDelay on Oct 21, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Keep in mind...

These are moves that COULD happen.

No way a team like the White Sox, a playoff caliber team, would trade away their second best hitter.

Another thing, you are REALLY rolling the dice on Smoltz as a starter.

Additionally, Garland is a FA. He would take a contract over $10M a year.

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by bbdbrandon on Oct 21, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just not sure about Frenchy. I really like the rest…just wish the bravos would have held onto Dye years ago but who doesnt.

by dabraves on Oct 23, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Defensive metrics

The chop-and-change.com guy said Yunel is at the top of the list according to defensive metrics. I would say he is in the top 15 and not the top 5.

I’m at work so can someone look it up?

by themurph on Oct 21, 2008 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Escobar...

…was #2 in the Majors in defense at SS. Using John Dewans +/- metric, Yunel finished with a +21 second to only Jimmy Rollins. Had Escobar not had injury problems down the stretch he most likely would’ve lead the league which he was doing with a +25 for most of the season.

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by RainDelay on Oct 21, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Offseason outlook

- Stay the fuck away from Jake Peavey (and keep Tommy Hanson)
- Look into what it would take to get a Matt Cain or Zack Greinke (or a similar young pitcher)… prospects to be considered in a deal would be Rohrbrough, Lillibridge, B. Jones, T. Flowers… etc. (No “Big 3”)
- Try to sign Derek Lowe (which will be difficult considering all of his suitors), fall back on Jon Garland (or even Oliver Perez) as other options
- Not really stoked on signing either Burrell or Dunn… too many strikeouts and neither seems to be a great fit in our lineup (I don’t care for either one of themto be hitting clean-up)… Magglio Ordenez would be a very good fit if we’re willing to take on the salary (Jermaine Dye I’m not too thrilled on)
- Re-sign Ohman
- Give Schafer every opportunity to win the CF job in the spring and have J. Anderson and Blanco as fallback options
- Look forward to 2010 and beyond

Potential Line-up:
Schafer/Anderson/Blanco
Yunel
Chipper
Maggs
Heap
Kotchman (or KJ)
French
KJ (or Kotchman)

I’m not really thrilled with Schafer in the leadoff spot if he wins the job, but I don’t really see anyone else fitting the role (Yunel was better as a 2 hitter last year if I recall), and I know Schafer puts up a high .OBP, which is all you really need from the lead off guy anyway
Potential Rotation:
Derek Lowe
Jair Jurrjens
Cain/Greinke
Campillo
Morton/Reyes/Hampton/etc.

If healthy, I think this would be a competitive team with an outside chance of making the playoffs, and it would keep most of our core in place to be successful long term.

by get swoll yunel on Oct 21, 2008 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

For the record

I don’t really like Jon Garland at all, but I personally don’t see us having a good shot at Derek Lowe, and I think there’s no way in hell we pick up CC (although that would rule)

And if this team wants to be competitive next, it’s gonna need at least 2 starters, with one of them coming through FA (to save prospects)

As wild and inconsistent as he can be, I’d take O. Perez over Garland, at least to keep him from owning our ass when he’s pitched against us the last couple of years.

by get swoll yunel on Oct 21, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Grienke+Cain

Probably won’t be too much cheaper then Peavy. While Peavy would cost Hanson+Schafer/Heyward, Grienke/Cain would cost Hanson+say Ka’aihue.

I also think going after Lowe is a mistake. Keep in mind how old he is with how many innings he has on his arm.

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by bbdbrandon on Oct 21, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't mean we should aquire them both

The “/” was meant to indicate an either/or scenario

We should look at options including Matt Cain or Zack Greinke, who I feel would both cost less in an individual deal, but (with Cain especially) that is debateble

by get swoll yunel on Oct 21, 2008 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

For example

I think a plausible deal for Cain could look like this:

Cole Rohrbrough
Freddy Freeman
Charlie Morton
Gorkys Hernandez
Brent Lillibridge

The Giants might insist on someone like Kelly Johnson in that package (in place of say Charlie Morton and Lilli), but who knows what Sabean might be thinking

For Greinke, I think it would be a slightly lesser package, if for no other reason than Dayton Moore is very familiar with out prospects and probably rates them a little higher than most other GMs

by get swoll yunel on Oct 21, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i dont know about cain...

but i live in kc and i know the royals are asking the world for grienke, hed easily be just as costly if not more so than peavy, so you can count him out.

what i think…
-pass on peavy unless he can be acquired without giving up heyward or hanson
-i like the magglio trade, although i dont know what his availability is, if not him i would look into raul ibanez, he is getting older, but hes a decent fielder, stays healthy, and is pretty consistent (career ops over .800) and i think would be a nice filler for a couple years till heyward is ready
-DEFINITELY resign ohman
-if the peavy deal doesnt go through, i like derek lowe and jon garland…i dont know why people dont like him, sure hes not an ace pitcher, but certainly a serviceable #3, hes not injury prone and more importantly eats a lot of innings, which the braves are gonna need.

which would make the ’09 braves.

schafer, blanco, anderson
yunel
chipper
ibanez
mac
kotch
frenchy
kj

rotation- lowe, jj, garland, campillo, morton/jojo/hampton
bullpen- ohman, soriano, moylan, gonzalez

no, this is probably not a world series team, probably not even a playoff team but i think its a building block and a step in the right direction by not giving up any prospects and setting the stage for a maybe a contender in 2010 or 2011

by KC Braves on Oct 21, 2008 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lost all credibility with

decent fielder (in reference to Ibanez there are numerous videos disproving this statement)

other than that everything seems fine

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Oct 21, 2008 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

2010 Braves

What do they look like? Where does Heyward fit into this equation? What do you intend to do with contracts that need to be extended? It appears as though you have spent most of the $45M that is available, what happens in 2010 with arbitration raises?

Also, where does Hanson and Meden fit in? What about Cordier? Rohrbough? It seems like you have locked up 3 or 4 5ths of the rotation as a ‘quick fix’ for 2009 while blocking pitchers that will be at least on par and for a 10th of the cost in 2010.

I like the idea, and thanks for staying with me here-you are actually one of about 5 or 6 replies I have ever gotten that actually put yourself in the GMs shoes. Thank you!

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by bbdbrandon on Oct 21, 2008 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Under my scenario

we’re paying Cain or Greinke chump change and probably paying O-dog or Garland around 10-12 annually (or 14-15 for D. Lowe)… add in the 15-16 mil that Maggs’ salary is going to cost, and the 5 or so mil that it will cost to bring back Ohman, and you’re looking at around 33-35 million committed.

That still leaves us under that 45 million amount (to maybe play around with for bench/bullpen help) and leaves us room for arbitration raises next year…

And we still we have plenty of room in the rotation for Hanson and whoever else…. the only three rotation spots that would be comitted would be Jurrjens/Trade Acquisition (such as Cain)/and FA acquisition (such as Lowe/Garland)…. Campillo is by no means a sure thing and neither are any of our prospects for that matter….and besides, who ever said having a starting pitching surplus was a bad thing? ;-)

by get swoll yunel on Oct 21, 2008 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Having SP Surplus

Is not a bad thing, but when you are paying Lowe/Garland $12M+ when you could be spending $400K for similar production is counter productive.

Also, Cain and Greinke will not be ‘chump change’. While they are certainly well under market value, Cain is at $2.65M in 2009 ($4.25M in 10), and Greinke is arbitration eligible for the first time this season. He certainly will get a raise from his current $1.4M salary and will probably approach $5M.

Also, are you willing to empty the Braves system for Cain/Greinke and Magglio? Cain/Greinke will cost two top 10 prospects and Magglio will cost at least one, as well as a bunch of other pieces. In all, those two players will probably cost between 6 and 9 prospects.

Thus, unless you feel that what you are putting together is a playoff caliber team, and will be until all the current contracts expire, etc, emptying the prospect tanks is not a great idea-just my view though.

The internet's latest attempt at understanding the insides of baseball.

by bbdbrandon on Oct 22, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do I need to post more..

…gifs of just how terribly bad Ibanez is in the outfield?

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by RainDelay on Oct 21, 2008 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh what the hell...

Again, full credit to Lookout Landing

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by RainDelay on Oct 21, 2008 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe now we can rest this whole "Raul is a good defender" myth.

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by RainDelay on Oct 21, 2008 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

And I now know that I posess two skills better than current major leaguers: Better OF that Ibanez, and better arm than Johnny Damon.

by VegasAces on Oct 22, 2008 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I love

Each and every one of these GIFs.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Oct 22, 2008 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look who’s back! :)

by VegasAces on Oct 22, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mr. Hobbs took a vacation……

I’ve been waiting a long time for that one!

by secondbass on Oct 22, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In Raul's Defense...

He was at home for two of those mishaps. Maybe the train was coming by?

Hahaha, I kid, he’s dreadful and old so presumably getting worse.

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by bbdbrandon on Oct 22, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If only

ALL of these were spliced together, and the theme from Benny Hill was added.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Oct 23, 2008 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+8798329847928374

..damn near spit coffee on my monitor reading that…

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by RainDelay on Oct 23, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i understood the "/"

that’s what my slash implied as well…

the issue is, it isn’t as if grienke/cain are going to turn a 72 win team into a 94 win team.

then when you consider that grienke’s contract expiring in 2 years, and cain’s being up in 3 years, i’m not sure if what you are giving up won’t be at that value (contract+service time+performance) when the braves are ready to be competitive. which, realistically, is not going to be earlier then the 2010 season.

The internet's latest attempt at understanding the insides of baseball.

by bbdbrandon on Oct 21, 2008 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Braves were a 79 win team last year in true talent.

by 17843 on Oct 21, 2008 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Problem with Pythag

Is it ignores ‘luck’. For example, what are the odds that Chipper Jones’ OBP is 62 points higher then his career average? Given how unsustainable his BABIP was, very very very unlikely. Thus, based on how the Braves played last year, they SHOULD have been a 79 win team.

There are other various faults in Pythag that are said to even out, if not over the course of a season, over the course of multiple seasons. The Braves, for example, have outperformed their expected wins since 2001.

But if all else is equal, Grienke/Cain aren’t going to boost a 79 win team to a 94 win team.

The internet's latest attempt at understanding the insides of baseball.

by bbdbrandon on Oct 22, 2008 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

luckily we only need to be a 90 win team for a reasonable shot at the playoffs

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Oct 22, 2008 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Office Space-Flingers or Chachkee's

Did you ever see Office Space?

Do you recall that part where Jennifer Anniston (Joanna) is being reemed by her boss for not wearing enough flair? I mean, if as a Braves fan, you are content with the ‘minimum’, then that is fine.

However, if going into the season, someone said, ‘the Braves will win no more, and no less then 90 games next season’, it would be a major roll of the dice whether or not the team got in.

But again, +11 wins is a lot for one player to make up, especially when you consider that one player is taking the spot of Hudson.

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by bbdbrandon on Oct 22, 2008 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let Me Remind Everyone...

The Gonzalez for Crisp trade was a ‘reaction’ move.

‘Reacting’ to the following outcomes:
1a. Gonzalez refusing to sign an extension;
1b. Gonzalez asking for KRod money
2. Smoltz/Soriano being healthy-there is little reason to have 3 capable closers.
3a. Another CF replacement is not found;
3b. Adding Paul Maholm is a reality.

On Crisp’s favor is the fact that he’d be moving to a less league. His contract is also very attractive for a player of his caliber. Let’s not forget he didn’t publicly have a problem coming off the bench for much of this season. Crisp would be an ideal seat warmer for Heyward/Schafer.

A seat warmer, is something the Braves really need to look at, lest they end up with another Frenchy.

The internet's latest attempt at understanding the insides of baseball.

by bbdbrandon on Oct 21, 2008 5:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

but neither of those first 2 things has happened.

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Oct 21, 2008 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The title of this series is ‘What Would the Outsider Do’?

The question I asked you is what would YOU do?

In neither of these scenario’s did I ask what has happened, what is likely to happen, etc. In fact, I dislike when people try to predict specific future outcomes. I don’t see the purpose when there are so many variables in play.

So while neither of the first 2 things has happened, and while they may have a 99.9% chance of occurring, they are things that I would highly consider in moving Gonzalez.

The internet's latest attempt at understanding the insides of baseball.

by bbdbrandon on Oct 21, 2008 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you know what i’d do? offer gonzalez a contract and resign him so i wouldn’t need to worry about trading him for coco crisp. problem solved.

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Oct 21, 2008 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’d probably offer Gonzo an extension in the 3/25-27mil range just to see if he bites.

I think that’s a reasonable offer, and I personally really dig the guy… but if he ends up having a great year and decides to walk, hopefully he’ll end up a Type A and net me a first rounder.

No big deal.

No reason to trade him for coco puffs.

by get swoll yunel on Oct 21, 2008 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

RE: Gonzalez

$8.3M a year for 3 years would be the absolute BOTTOM of an offer that Gonzalez would accept. Think about the deal that BJ Ryan inked in 2005. He was the same age, albeit with a superior track record.

As far as the draft picks are concerned, that holds some weight. However, the team would be much more competitive with Crisp in center then what they currently have. The only difference trading Gonzalez makes, is that it bumps everyone up the totem pole. So instead of Gonzalez being the closer followed by Soriano, Smoltz, Acosta, etc the bullpen is Soriano, Smoltz, Acosta, etc. I’d say the upgrade from Crisp to the current situation far outweighs the marginal affects that will be noted in the bullpen.

Another benefit of Crisp, he allows the Braves a chance to take a time with their highly coveted outfield prospects. As is, Schafer/Heyward are the Braves #1 and #2 best options for the outfield.

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by bbdbrandon on Oct 22, 2008 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

RE: Gonzalez

Not to be rude, but did you read my article?

In it, I wrote that signing Gonzalez should be one of the priorities.

However, I worry that he’s going to ask for $9-11M a year for at least 3 years, if not 5 or 6. A borderline BJ Ryan contract. Chances are that his agent is advising him to wait for KRod’s signing to go down before even beginning to negotiate.

The internet's latest attempt at understanding the insides of baseball.

by bbdbrandon on Oct 21, 2008 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m tempted to write off ’09 and develop our youngsters, see where we stand after a full season. Maybe they pull off a miracle and contend. Too many unknowns now. Invest the 40 mil in the stock market for 2010.

by TradeAndruw on Oct 21, 2008 5:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well not the stock market ;)

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by bbdbrandon on Oct 21, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There will be a lot of free agent SPs...

try to get a good deal on one of them – I’m thinking that Garland can at least eat the innings and help give the bullpen a bit of a rest, and he’ll be cheap. Maybe Burnett or Derek Lowe will be available for a good price too.

If Dunn can be signed to a three year deal, his OBP and home runs would be very useful and we should be able to avoid what will undoubtedly be the rather ugly tail end of his career.

If Cain can be had for a group of prospects that won’t hurt too bad – I’m thinking about second tier guys here, not Hanson/Schafer/Heyward/ – it could be a good move. He’s a great young pitcher with a favorable deal.

Overall, I’m of the mind that we should try to use free agency to find a few guys who can hold us over until we assemble a nucleus of players to drive our next postseason run, and consider a trade that would give us a piece of that if it doesn’t cost us top tier prospects.

by BraveBronco0121 on Oct 21, 2008 9:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Here is a list of FA Starters, via Cots Baseball Contracts...

Starting Pitchers
Kris Benson PHI
A.J. Burnett TOR (may opt out)
Paul Byrd BOS
Ryan Dempster CHC
Jon Garland LAA
Tom Glavine ATL
Mike Hampton * ATL
Rich Harden * CHC
Orlando Hernandez NYM
Jason Jennings TEX
Randy Johnson ARZ
John Lackey * LAA
Esteban Loaiza CHW
Braden Looper STL
Derek Lowe LAD
Pedro Martinez NYM
Mike Mussina NYY
Jamie Moyer PHI
Mark Mulder * STL
Carl Pavano NYY
Brad Penny * LAD
Odalis Perez WAS
Oliver Perez NYM
Andy Pettitte NYY
Mark Prior SD
Horacio Ramirez CHW
C.C. Sabathia MIL
Ben Sheets MIL
John Smoltz * ATL
Julian Tavarez ATL
Steve Trachsel BAL
Brett Tomko SD
Claudio Vargas MIL
Randy Wolf HOU

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by RainDelay on Oct 21, 2008 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not of these options are very appealing

Derek Lowe (I dig sinkerballers but dude is fuckin’ old and will probably cost more than he is worth)
Dempster (who will resign with the Cubs)
Burnett (who is always injured and scares the shit out of me because I am scarred by last season)
R. Johnson (who will probably resign with Zona and is old as balls)
J. Garland (is a solid #4 and that’s about it… he’s gonna give you a 4.5 ERA and a 1.5 WHIP)
Oliver Perez (I like this guy a lot, but he walks a shit ton of batters and is very, very inconsistent)
Sabathia (gonna cost a bunch fo money for a long time)
B. Sheets (Injuries ahhhh!)

by get swoll yunel on Oct 21, 2008 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Everyone comes with inury risk..

….Lowe is possible though he expressed desire to play in Boston again. He’s the least risky, and would be worth the money, but no more than 2 years and an option – which I’m sure is out of the question.

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by RainDelay on Oct 21, 2008 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Balls are only as old as the man they hang from...

by buzzdeadwax on Oct 22, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think a conservative approach is the right one

I think we should look at 09 as a rebuilding year, while we do have money this offseason, we aren’t the Mets or Yankees, we can’t buy ourselves into contention. If we acquire Peavy, Hanson, Johnson, and Escobar must be off limits. I’d propose…

ATL Gets:
-Peavy

SDG Gets:
-Morton
-Prado
-Schafer
-Flowers

and if they ask for more, I’d tell them where the door is. So let’s assume they take that deal, I would sign Burrell to play LF. Also I would re-sign Hampton and Glavine to compete for the last slot in the rotation. I would also sign Randy Wolf. Smoltz would get re-signed, but as a reliever.

My line-up:
1. Escobar SS®
2. Johnson 2B (L)
3. Chipper 3B (S)
4. McCann C (L)
5. Burrell LF®
6. Kotchman 1B (L)
7. Frenchy RF®
8. Anderson CF (L)

Rotation:
1. Peavy®
2. Jurrjens®
3. Wolf (L)
4. Campillo/Hanson by midseason®
5. Hampton/Glavine (L)

by MatM on Oct 23, 2008 1:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If the Pads didn't take that deal

I’d go after Edwin Jackson in Tampa, I think we could get him for Kala K.

Rotation would be:
1. Jurrjens®
2. Campillo/Hanson®
3. Wolf (L)
4. Jackson®
5. Hampton/Glavine (L)

Line-up would be the same as above.

by MatM on Oct 23, 2008 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A 2-3-4 of Campillo/Wolf/Jackson would be horrible

That team would be lucky to win 70 games

by get swoll yunel on Oct 23, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Were not a contender anyways

This team can’t expect to be a top team next year without sacrificing multiple successful years down the road.

by MatM on Oct 23, 2008 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

im not saying i agree with this, but if we take this plan as a rebuild year for 09 it sets us up well for 2010, theoretically we are able to repalce Jackson with a better pitcher and move Jackson into the Bullpen where ive always thought he would be more effective.

In his history it seems to me that he has pitched remarkably well through his frist time thorugh a lineup, then gets hit. He obviously has ML stuff, but seems to stuggle with location, mostly cause he seems to pitch to the corners instead of utilizing his natural movement.

im not syaing i agree with this plan because I think we might be able to get a better pitcher than Jackson from TB, i have a feeling one of Garza, SHields, or Kazmir may be moving. I have no basis for this belief, but they have a excess of starting pitching(if thats possible)… so they could be dealing from an area of strength. obviously with a team as strong as theirs i dont know where they would look to improve, besides RF and addign power thoughout the OF, really.

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Oct 23, 2008 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs