Kotsay Deal goes from From Bad to Worse
The Atlanta Braves don't make these kinds of deals! What in the hell are we doing giving up two very projectable minor league pitchers for ONE YEAR of an average center fielder! Joey Devine was bad enough, but now we find out that the deal also includes right-handed starter Jamie Richmond. While still only an A-ball pitcher, Richmond owns a 2.49 ERA and a 1.06 WHIP through three seasons of minor league baseball.
When I read that Richmond was part of the deal I shouted out, "Oh My God, What in the Hell are we Doing!" What in the hell are we doing? I understand the desire to maybe have a more experienced centerfielder, but is THIS really the market price for Mark Kotsay!
Livid doesn't even begin to describe my mood right now.
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One year to win it all
by TradeAndruw on Jan 14, 2008 8:08 PM EST 0 recs
wow...
by Doghnut on Jan 14, 2008 8:48 PM EST 0 recs
Let's wait and see on Wren
With this being said I think we need to cut Wren some slack, a lot of people on here have been saying he is pretty much worthless and shouldn't have the job. Well I think we should take a wait and see approach, at least giving him a chance to succeed before we cast him out.
First off, he was hand picked by JS to take over the duties of general manager, so that should count for something. Secondly, we have to respect the fact that he did what he said he was going to do when the offseason began - we got a solid starting pitcher, a utility player, a LOOGY, and now a short term veteran centerfielder - so he accomplished everything he set out to accomplish. In my book he gets credit for doing that even if we don't all entirely agree on the moves he made. I mean there are plenty of GM's who say we need to do this and that when the offseason starts, but they start the next season with basically the same team. Lastly, on this move for Kotsay, I think we should also give Wren the benefit of the doubt because everyone is saying "how dumb this move is", but we can't really think that JS and Cox didn't have input on this trade before it was made. And if we don't want to give Wren the benefit of the doubt, then I think we should be calling out Cox and JS on this move as well because they certainly had input on the trade and probably more input than all of us are lead to beleive.
by whunt13 on
Jan 14, 2008 9:46 PM EST
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Gondee...livid?
Zach Schreiber can give us what Devine was. Zach is setup guy and future closer the same way they talked about Blaine Boyer at one point.
I don't get what the big deal is? I would have made this deal.
by themurph on Jan 14, 2008 9:35 PM EST 0 recs
The vets on the team
Wren knows that the last thing the pitchers need to worry about is an unknown in the outfield. Glavine, Smoltz, Hudson...I bet they had a hand in this deal getting done.
The timing would suggest that...right??
by themurph on
Jan 14, 2008 9:38 PM EST
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5th starter
by MurphyHOF on
Jan 14, 2008 9:45 PM EST
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TheMurph
by bravos408 on
Jan 15, 2008 12:11 AM EST
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Richmond
by Escobar19 on Jan 14, 2008 10:10 PM EST 0 recs
Richmond
This doesn't particularly make the deal much worse; viewed in the context of an offseason where we dealt a solid righty multi-inning reliever supposedly because he cost too much and to acquire a center fielder. Now we turn around and trade another cheap middle reliever (ostensibly Villareal's replacement) for a more expensive and injury prone center fielder. In my book that's two steps backward and none forward. I'd much rather be paying Villareal $2.6 million over the next two years AND have Devine in my pen and Richmond at Myrtle Beach then have Kotsay in my trainer's room and Anderson playing regularly over Blanco.
And I'm willing to give Frank Wren the benefit of the doubt. The Renteria deal was pure genius in my mind, but trading Villareal for basically nothing and now getting Kotsay when you have a better option absolutely destroying winter ball? C'mon.
by 17843 on Jan 14, 2008 11:09 PM EST 0 recs
I know we don't always agree...
by Smoltzs Beard on
Jan 15, 2008 12:51 PM EST
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no problem
by jack dein on Jan 15, 2008 12:24 AM EST 0 recs
A Big League Pitcher
by bravos408 on
Jan 15, 2008 11:00 AM EST
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A terrible deal
by Stephen on Jan 15, 2008 6:25 AM EST 0 recs
precisely
More than who we traded, this is what infuriates me. Kotsay is not exactly optimal.
by Velcro Vernacular on
Jan 15, 2008 8:48 AM EST
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Wren
by TMAC85 on Jan 15, 2008 8:20 AM EST 0 recs
Are you guys kidding me?
by jjhoosby on Jan 15, 2008 8:56 AM EST 0 recs
Woohoo! Weehee! Cha Ching!!! Bang Bang!!
by bravos408 on
Jan 15, 2008 11:07 AM EST
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good deal to me
by 22oz on Jan 15, 2008 9:10 AM EST 0 recs
I like where you're head's at
by bravos408 on
Jan 15, 2008 11:17 AM EST
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Works for me too
by SpeedTriple on Jan 15, 2008 9:29 AM EST 0 recs
is everyone forgetting?
Every time Devine took the ball, i had to either change the channel or grab the maalox. This kid has to leave, to try something else, to do something different - b/c he is tainted. So, we barely lost anything, one little prospect, and the long ball gift giver, for the chance to not stress out for the first half of our season.
I think Wren's doing a damn good job, and i'm more optimistic this year than i have been in three.
by traphicg on Jan 15, 2008 9:49 AM EST 0 recs
Amen!
That should be Kotsay's nickname "if healthy"
by themurph on
Jan 15, 2008 10:00 AM EST
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tainted
Joey rose above what happened to him. It was said that devine's presence changed and he was starting to act like he really belonged with atlanta. He pitched really well at every level he was this year. I would say joey is far from tainted, and his reputation as the guy who gave up two grand slams will loom over him until he succeeds on a bigger stage than the one he failed on (nomatter where he is traded to). Nomatter where you go people know him as the guy who lost those games. I don't think this trade will do anything for him except piss him off, which would probably cause him to pitch better.
by bravos408 on
Jan 15, 2008 11:31 AM EST
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Wow...
Let's say Kotsay plays slightly beyond the level of A-Rod last season and racks up a surreal 100 VORP. That would mean that if Joey Devine's average value over his six years under team control would only have to be roughly equivalent to Ryan Madson's 2007 in order to eclipse that! If you want to be more realistic (and still optimistic) let's say he's Eric Byrnes circa 2007, Devine would just need to average a VORP of about 7 (Kerry Wood did that in five games, 250 pitchers were more valuable, etc.) I'm not even including any possible impact that Jamie Richmond might have (minimal in my opinion).
We significantly overpaid for an injured prone, declining CF, period.
by ejruiz on Jan 15, 2008 10:41 AM EST 0 recs
thank you
And let's not forget that it was Professor Farnsworth who really broke our hearts that night.
by Velcro Vernacular on
Jan 15, 2008 11:33 AM EST
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Amen...
by Smoltzs Beard on
Jan 15, 2008 1:04 PM EST
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devine
by bravos408 on Jan 15, 2008 11:25 AM EST 0 recs
Are you guys kidding...
Also who cares about the $2M vs $8M?? I thought we were going to spend some extra money!! This might look good for (1) year, but Devine will be good as a closer for the next 5+ years.
I don't think it will put us in the World series, so why make it.
by bravos on Jan 15, 2008 12:01 PM EST 0 recs
veteran
by drdonkeypunch on
Jan 15, 2008 12:39 PM EST
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Veteran
by jjhoosby on
Jan 15, 2008 12:56 PM EST
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whoops
by jjhoosby on
Jan 15, 2008 1:02 PM EST
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Who's being rushed?
Don't seriously say that would be rushing his development. Few prospects spend three years at the top two minor league levels.
And no one's saying he'll be a stud or that he has much of a future with the Braves. But if he could put up a realistic .275/.350/.375 and play average defense, that would be equivalent to Mark Kotsay's contribution to the team this year and without dumping two young pitchers and spending $2,000,000.
Josh Anderson? Another guy who's played three seasons at the Double-A and Triple-A levels. Another guy who's posted solid numbers. Another go who could go out there and hit #8 and post below average production for 140 games and do it for $2,000,000 and two pitchers cheaper.
Seriously folks, major league experience doesn't equal jack if 1. they aren't healthy and 2. they aren't productive anymore. Kotsay has a poor track record health wise and doesn't even have much of an upside anymore as anything but a below average hitter in center field. I don't want to even think about if he's not healthy. That's two million down the drain and we're right back where we started.
by 17843 on Jan 15, 2008 1:17 PM EST 0 recs
hmmm
If i've learned anything its that the braves love veteran guys. They'd take a vet over a young stud anyday with even a small resemblence in stats. There was really no need to get anyone for center, especially after they got anderson. But like i just said, they love that assurance. It will kill me when kotsay shows up to camp and gets beat out by a 22 year old
by bravos408 on
Jan 16, 2008 12:09 AM EST
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What the Heck is some of yall talking about?
So what that Blanco is not rated all that high. Maybe he could be a Charles Thomas for a year. Who knows? And plus I read on a site that said some scouts said that Blanco is the BEST outfielder defensively that they have ever seen. And then a quote from Eddie Perez said "you never saw Andruw Jones"? So Blanco right there will be better than Kotsay.
Do we actually need ANOTHER injury proned player on this team? We already have Hampton and Chipper(yes I know Chipper was healthy last year but you never know about him). We will be lucky to get 100 games out of Kotsay. I really believe that Blanco will be just as good as Kotsay at least for one year.
by rockybull on Jan 15, 2008 1:52 PM EST 0 recs
Baseball America's writeup...
"This deal fits the needs for both teams. A healthy Kotsay would be a big upgrade over Anderson and a nice one-year bridge to center-field prospect Jordan Schafer, and he didn't cost the Braves a top prospect. From the A's standpoint, they weren't going to win this year or re-sign Kotsay afterward, so picking up a couple of arms for him makes sense."
by Smoltzs Beard on Jan 16, 2008 9:05 AM EST 0 recs
Thank you
by jjhoosby on
Jan 16, 2008 9:27 AM EST
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Baseball America is poop
by bravos408 on
Jan 16, 2008 1:37 PM EST
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Braves408
by jjhoosby on
Jan 16, 2008 2:27 PM EST
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eh???who??
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/05top10s/braves.html
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/features/263052.html
by bravos408 on
Jan 17, 2008 12:24 AM EST
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Bravos408
1998 Bruce Chen lhp
1999 Bruce Chen lhp
2000 Rafael Furcal ss
2001 Wilson Betemit ss
2002 Wilson Betemit ss
2003 Adam Wainwright rhp
2004 Andy Marte 3b
2005 Jeff Francoeur of
2006 Andy Marte 3b
2007 Jarrod Saltalamacchia c
Bruce Chen was the #1 prospect 2 years running. His 10 year MLB record is 35-37 4.63 ERA
Wilson Betemit had the same honor. Where's he at?
Andy Marte didn't earn it in consecutive seasons but he won it twice as well. Joey Devine never even came close to smelling that top spot, but like I've stated before.... They're just prospects.
by jjhoosby on
Jan 17, 2008 9:27 AM EST
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hold on there hold on
by bravos408 on
Jan 17, 2008 11:17 AM EST
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Ok
by jjhoosby on
Jan 17, 2008 1:31 PM EST
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none
Someones original comment was that joey wasnt a top prospect..thats all that upset me..Actually didn't even upset me, just made me twitch alittle and punch some keys and voila! Here you have my brain on your screen.
The one thing that does get me alittle though is the fact that you say the number one is supposed to have a better shot..ok ok i see, but I'm saying the top 10 in the whole organization is a nice little piece of recognition and it means that you've been considered to be better than 180 other guys or 200 or whatever..but that's it..BA is the one who puts those huge printouts that gives the other 9 guys the little box with a picture, and then the #1 gets a whole page with a sweet action shot..The way I view BA is, just report the news..I don't look at them as the most accurate source available. Reading BA is sometimes listening to Fox news or whatever and them saying how we shouldn't be in iraq..
by bravos408 on
Jan 17, 2008 6:38 PM EST
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blank
by bravos408 on
Jan 17, 2008 8:05 PM EST
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That was me
by jjhoosby on
Jan 17, 2008 11:18 PM EST
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Proven
by 17843 on
Jan 18, 2008 12:47 AM EST
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.n/a
by bravos408 on
Jan 18, 2008 1:20 AM EST
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Although BA...
But the first time I see Kotsay on the DL, I'll go back to being bitter.
by Smoltzs Beard on
Jan 16, 2008 4:44 PM EST
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