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Kotsay Deal goes from From Bad to Worse

The Atlanta Braves don't make these kinds of deals! What in the hell are we doing giving up two very projectable minor league pitchers for ONE YEAR of an average center fielder! Joey Devine was bad enough, but now we find out that the deal also includes right-handed starter Jamie Richmond. While still only an A-ball pitcher, Richmond owns a 2.49 ERA and a 1.06 WHIP through three seasons of minor league baseball.

When I read that Richmond was part of the deal I shouted out, "Oh My God, What in the Hell are we Doing!" What in the hell are we doing? I understand the desire to maybe have a more experienced centerfielder, but is THIS really the market price for Mark Kotsay!

Livid doesn't even begin to describe my mood right now.

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One year to win it all
If we're really going for broke in '08, why not open up the checkbook and get a real difference-maker? Kotsay reminds me of a less talented BJ Surhoff.

by TradeAndruw on Jan 14, 2008 8:08 PM EST   0 recs

wow...
i dont know much about Richmond (if anything), but considering that i think Devine + a batboy would be too much, this certainly does not make me happy...

by Doghnut on Jan 14, 2008 8:48 PM EST   0 recs

Retard
Can we trade Frank Wren?

by jjcollins10 on Jan 14, 2008 9:26 PM EST   0 recs

Let's wait and see on Wren
I wasn't opposed to this trade at first and since I don't know much about Richmond except that he is pretty old to still be pitching in A ball, I guess I'm still okay with it......but I am starting to lean more towards the "this was a stupid trade side"

With this being said I think we need to cut Wren some slack, a lot of people on here have been saying he is pretty much worthless and shouldn't have the job.  Well I think we should take a wait and see approach, at least giving him a chance to succeed before we cast him out.  

First off, he was hand picked by JS to take over the duties of general manager, so that should count for something.  Secondly, we have to respect the fact that he did what he said he was going to do when the offseason began - we got a solid starting pitcher, a utility player, a LOOGY, and now a short term veteran centerfielder - so he accomplished everything he set out to accomplish.  In my book he gets credit for doing that even if we don't all entirely agree on the moves he made.  I mean there are plenty of GM's who say we need to do this and that when the offseason starts, but they start the next season with basically the same team.  Lastly, on this move for Kotsay, I think we should also give Wren the benefit of the doubt because everyone is saying "how dumb this move is", but we can't really think that JS and Cox didn't have input on this trade before it was made. And if we don't want to give Wren the benefit of the doubt, then I think we should be calling out Cox and JS on this move as well because they certainly had input on the trade and probably more input than all of us are lead to beleive.

by whunt13 on Jan 14, 2008 9:46 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Gondee...livid?
Richmond is no big deal.  He maybe has the ceiling of a Kyle Davies, maybe, if he works on his secondary stuff.  5th starter at best.

Zach Schreiber can give us what Devine was.  Zach is setup guy and future closer the same way they talked about Blaine Boyer at one point.    

I don't get what the big deal is?  I would have made this deal.  

by themurph on Jan 14, 2008 9:35 PM EST   0 recs

The vets on the team
may have been talking to Frank Wren the day before and the day of fanfest (when this deal happened) about their concerns of having two rookies playing centerfield.

Wren knows that the last thing the pitchers need to worry about is an unknown in the outfield.  Glavine, Smoltz, Hudson...I bet they had a hand in this deal getting done.

The timing would suggest that...right??

by themurph on Jan 14, 2008 9:38 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

5th starter
If I remember the last two years correctly, a 5th starter was in pretty high demand in this organization. Do we really have enough of them to give away? This trade stinks.

by MurphyHOF on Jan 14, 2008 9:45 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

TheMurph
Murph man I agree. I like richmonds stats, but he was going to be a 5th starter maybe at best if he got lucky. His stuff is not impressive. We have many guys with his ceiling already in the system so don't fret. Everything will be fine.

by bravos408 on Jan 15, 2008 12:11 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Richmond
Richmond turns 22 in March; he's the type of pitching prospect who doesn't light up the radar gun but has "command of three pitches and advanced feel for pitching" according to baseball america

by Escobar19 on Jan 14, 2008 10:10 PM EST   0 recs

Richmond
If we had to give an A-ball prospect up, thankfully it's him. He was old for Danville when he dominated in 2006 and old for Low-A when he was good in 2007. His ceiling wasn't much above a #4 starter and the Braves are simply loaded with young pitching at those levels.

This doesn't particularly make the deal much worse; viewed in the context of an offseason where we dealt a solid righty multi-inning reliever supposedly because he cost too much and to acquire a center fielder. Now we turn around and trade another cheap middle reliever (ostensibly Villareal's replacement) for a more expensive and injury prone center fielder. In my book that's two steps backward and none forward. I'd much rather be paying Villareal $2.6 million over the next two years AND have Devine in my pen and Richmond at Myrtle Beach then have Kotsay in my trainer's room and Anderson playing regularly over Blanco.

And I'm willing to give Frank Wren the benefit of the doubt. The Renteria deal was pure genius in my mind, but trading Villareal for basically nothing and now getting Kotsay when you have a better option absolutely destroying winter ball? C'mon.

by 17843 on Jan 14, 2008 11:09 PM EST   0 recs

I know we don't always agree...
...but that is exactly how I feel.  Well put.

by Smoltzs Beard on Jan 15, 2008 12:51 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

no problem
what does anyone care about losing a 22 yr old A-ball pitcher who may make it to the majors when he is 25.  I still don't think Devine will amount to much.

by jack dein on Jan 15, 2008 12:24 AM EST   0 recs

A Big League Pitcher
A big league pitcher is a big league pitcher, and he can either get the job done or not...What does it matter if he's 25? The average break in year is 24 years old... Why is there such an issue on here about a players age? If he can get the job done at 25 or 26 or 38 what does it matter? He could be 100 and if he's gettting outs it doesn't matter

by bravos408 on Jan 15, 2008 11:00 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

A terrible deal
The main issue is not Devine and Richmond--it is the fact that Braves went out of their way to trade for a sub-par player, when better options were readily available.  That said, the trade might have been ok if it were Richmond and another prospect--but to trade away both Devine and Richmond is needlessly foolish....

by Stephen on Jan 15, 2008 6:25 AM EST   0 recs

precisely
the fact that Braves went out of their way to trade for a sub-par player, when better options were readily available.

More than who we traded, this is what infuriates me. Kotsay is not exactly optimal.

by Velcro Vernacular on Jan 15, 2008 8:48 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Wren
Maybe this is why Frank Wren couldn't even keep the job in Balt. Well also the fact that he left without Cal Ripken Jr. because he was 5 mins. I am starting to think that Wren is the problem. Look at it this way even if Richmond and or Devine don't pan out at all we are only going to have Kotsay for one year. The A's will get at least a few years out of both of them considering their lack of pitching in the minors. Trade Wren for a dozen baseballs and hire David Cross the gm at Danville.
N. Tyler Ayers

by TMAC85 on Jan 15, 2008 8:20 AM EST   0 recs

Are you guys kidding me?
Why is everyone deriding this deal?  A prospect is just that; a prospect.  How many guys have we had in our farm system that have been "can't miss" and have missed?  Richmond was not even a "can't miss" player.  Devine was never going to recover (mentally) from giving up those two grand slams in his first two appearances; that's a lot for a rookie to endure.  Oakland is eating $5 million of Kotsay's $7 million salary.  Patterson, Cameron, or any other CF'er out there would have cost more in both salary and years on contract.  We needed a one year CF'er to bridge the gap from Andruw to Schafer and we have it.  Kotsay is a lefty as is Schafer; Kotsay is a GREAT defensive CF as is Schafer; there's lots to pass on here people.  How many times did we second guess Schuerholz when he made some trades?  Remember giving up Randall Simon, Odalis Perez, Damian Moss, Tony Tarasco, Andy Marte, etc.?  We all cried and howled for Schuerholz's head, but guess what?  Where are these players now?  This fits our needs best.  

by jjhoosby on Jan 15, 2008 8:56 AM EST   0 recs

Woohoo! Weehee! Cha Ching!!! Bang Bang!!
Someone said it!! Though if you look at Devine's season, (the innings are limited) I think its safe to say he might be turning the corner in the big leagues. I don't belive joey is mentally ruined, he was just sidelined. Richmond is a good pitcher, but he's not something to cry over. We have over a dozen guys that i can think of off the top of my head that have more upside than him from AA down.

by bravos408 on Jan 15, 2008 11:07 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

good deal to me
Yes, its a gamble, but i think its worth it.  Devine got sent down how many times last year?  Obviously Cox wasn't gonna use him much.  You can bitch and moan about prospects, but they are prospects.  You keep the ones that will be needed and trade others to fill your needs.  Thats baseball.  Who can project if we will need Richmond 3 years down the road.  We have a good many 4th and 5th starters in the system in Chuck, Jo-Jo, Morton, and maybe some 2 and 3's in Jurrjens and Medlin.  you can't keep your entire minor league system.  Personally, i'd like to win this year!  Ya'll act like we did all that and are paying 8 million for Kotsay, i believe its only 2!  

by 22oz on Jan 15, 2008 9:10 AM EST   0 recs

I like where you're head's at
If you were to take away smoltz, hudson, glavine, hampton tomorrow you'd see the rotation looking like that, with jo jo, jurrjens, morton, chuck, hanson.... something like that. Then you have guys like broadway, heathe, rohrbough, evans who all have some of the best arms in the system. Medlen isn't a starter, but he will definitely be pitching in the big leagues. I hope his stuff is good enough to translate his success in the low minors over to the show

by bravos408 on Jan 15, 2008 11:17 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Works for me too
I think as long as Kotsay is/stays healthy this will be a good deal.  And can we please stop with the "six years of Devine for a year of Kotsay" mantra?  The stated goal was a one year "bridge" to Schafer which is what we now have...hopefully.

by SpeedTriple on Jan 15, 2008 9:29 AM EST   0 recs

is everyone forgetting?
Joey Devine gave up two grand slams, AND the 18th inning walk off, which broke everyone's hearts forever, within 2 minutes of breathing the big league air.  

Every time Devine took the ball, i had to either change the channel or grab the maalox.  This kid has to leave, to try something else, to do something different  - b/c he is tainted.  So, we barely lost anything, one little prospect, and the long ball gift giver, for the chance to not stress out for the first half of our season.

I think Wren's doing a damn good job, and i'm more optimistic this year than i have been in three.

by traphicg on Jan 15, 2008 9:49 AM EST   0 recs

Amen!
Preach it!  The veterans wanted a veteran in centerfield and Wren got it for nothing...if healthy.

That should be Kotsay's nickname "if healthy"

by themurph on Jan 15, 2008 10:00 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

tainted
tainted is a harsh word...
Joey rose above what happened to him. It was said that devine's presence changed and he was starting to act like he really belonged with atlanta. He pitched really well at every level he was this year. I would say joey is far from tainted, and his reputation as the guy who gave up two grand slams will loom over him until he succeeds on a bigger stage than the one he failed on (nomatter where he is traded to). Nomatter where you go people know him as the guy who lost those games. I don't think this trade will do anything for him except piss him off, which would probably cause him to pitch better.

by bravos408 on Jan 15, 2008 11:31 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Wow...
You guys must be out of your freaking minds... Devine is tainted/trash because of three AB you can think off?!  That's much worse than pointing to the measly 20 IP in the majors thus far.  Like I've said, he was rushed in 2005, playing hurt in 2006 and shuttled back-and-forth from the minors in 2007.  All in all, he's still over a year younger than Zach Schreiber and out performed him by a HUGE margin.  Devine is going to be a very, very good reliever people.

Let's say Kotsay plays slightly beyond the level of A-Rod last season and racks up a surreal 100 VORP.  That would mean that if Joey Devine's average value over his six years under team control would only have to be roughly equivalent to Ryan Madson's 2007 in order to eclipse that!  If you want to be more realistic (and still optimistic) let's say he's Eric Byrnes circa 2007, Devine would just need to average a VORP of about 7 (Kerry Wood did that in five games, 250 pitchers were more valuable, etc.) I'm not even including any possible impact that Jamie Richmond might have (minimal in my opinion).  

We significantly overpaid for an injured prone, declining CF, period.  

Come check out my blog 52 Card Pick-up and let me know what you think!

by ejruiz on Jan 15, 2008 10:41 AM EST   0 recs

thank you
Devine is tainted/trash because of three AB you can think off?!

And let's not forget that it was Professor Farnsworth who really broke our hearts that night.

by Velcro Vernacular on Jan 15, 2008 11:33 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Amen...
...that night ranks up that with Hrbek pushing Gant off the bag in my opinion.

by Smoltzs Beard on Jan 15, 2008 1:04 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

devine
is a stud.. But, he hasn't really proven successful in the big leagues (which takes away his trade bait status). I am one who believes in the long run that devine will be of greater worth than kotsay, but a trade needs to be fair for both parties to consider it. I think the braves should have kept devine up in 07 and gotten him more innings, that way they would've been in a lot better position than they are now (that is if devine had gotten in more plus outtings). So basically whats happened here is that we traded a guy who has had how many stints in the big leagues with limited success for a guy who's an average at best center fielder? On paper this looks good. Now to you who cant let go because of devine's top 5 prospect status its hard...I know..and time heals many wounds

by bravos408 on Jan 15, 2008 11:25 AM EST   0 recs

Are you guys kidding...
There is no way anyone dosen't think that we over-paid on this trade.  You don't give away (2) guys with major league upside under the age of 22, for a one year stop gap that has a history of injuries.  I'm not a GM, but I'm positive I could have found a better solution for a veteran in cf.  
Also who cares about the $2M vs $8M??  I thought we were going to spend some extra money!!  This might look good for (1) year, but Devine will be good as a closer for the next 5+ years.  

I don't think it will put us in the World series, so why make it.

by bravos on Jan 15, 2008 12:01 PM EST   0 recs

Really?
bravos, who would be your veteran CF'er?

by jjhoosby on Jan 15, 2008 12:07 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

veteran
Who says we even need a veteran CF? Blanco would do the same job for less cost and we wouldn't have to trade away any prospects for him.

by drdonkeypunch on Jan 15, 2008 12:39 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Veteran
Gregor Blanco?  The OF'er that's not even ranked as one of our top 10 prospects in our farm?  As a matter of fact, Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus ranks atleast 5 guys ahead of Blanco.  Baseball America has 4 OF'ers ranked ahead of Blanco as well.  Plus, there is no reason at all to rush the development of these guys and put them in situation where they can fail and fail often.

by jjhoosby on Jan 15, 2008 12:56 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

whoops
It should have read: Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus ranks atleast 5 OF'ers ahead of Blanco.

by jjhoosby on Jan 15, 2008 1:02 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

DID YOU
STEAL MY NAME???????????????

by bravos408 on Jan 16, 2008 12:00 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

ooops
sorry, it appears i stole yours

by bravos408 on Jan 16, 2008 12:02 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Who's being rushed?
Gregor Blanco? The guy with 850 plate appearances at Triple-A and 768 plate appearances at Double-A? Who has posted a .275/.378/.366 at those levels over the past three seasons? The guy who has a .345/.445/.485 in 270 Venezuelan Winter League plate appearances? The guy with the .303/.393/.403 in 797 plate appearances this season?

Don't seriously say that would be rushing his development. Few prospects spend three years at the top two minor league levels.

And no one's saying he'll be a stud or that he has much of a future with the Braves. But if he could put up a realistic .275/.350/.375 and play average defense, that would be equivalent to Mark Kotsay's contribution to the team this year and without dumping two young pitchers and spending $2,000,000.

Josh Anderson? Another guy who's played three seasons at the Double-A and Triple-A levels. Another guy who's posted solid numbers. Another go who could go out there and hit #8 and post below average production for 140 games and do it for $2,000,000 and two pitchers cheaper.

Seriously folks, major league experience doesn't equal jack if 1. they aren't healthy and 2. they aren't productive anymore. Kotsay has a poor track record health wise and doesn't even have much of an upside anymore as anything but a below average hitter in center field. I don't want to even think about if he's not healthy. That's two million down the drain and we're right back where we started.

by 17843 on Jan 15, 2008 1:17 PM EST   0 recs

hmmm
I find myself agreeing with you semi frequently... nicely done.
If i've learned anything its that the braves love veteran guys. They'd take a vet over a young stud anyday with even a small resemblence in stats. There was really no need to get anyone for center, especially after they got anderson. But like i just said, they love that assurance. It will kill me when kotsay shows up to camp and gets beat out by a 22 year old

by bravos408 on Jan 16, 2008 12:09 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

What the Heck is some of yall talking about?
Why the heck do we need a veteran CF? Dont we have enough veterans on this team? All the veterans on this team in the Mid to late 90's did not help us win more than one championship.

So what that Blanco is not rated all that high. Maybe he could be a Charles Thomas for a year. Who knows? And plus I read on a site that said some scouts said that Blanco is the BEST outfielder defensively that they have ever seen. And then a quote from Eddie Perez said "you never saw Andruw Jones"? So Blanco right there will be better than Kotsay.

Do we actually need ANOTHER injury proned player on this team? We already have Hampton and Chipper(yes I know Chipper was healthy last year but you never know about him). We will be lucky to get 100 games out of Kotsay. I really believe that Blanco will be just as good as Kotsay at least for one year.

braves#1

by rockybull on Jan 15, 2008 1:52 PM EST   0 recs

Baseball America's writeup...
...of the trade:

"This deal fits the needs for both teams. A healthy Kotsay would be a big upgrade over Anderson and a nice one-year bridge to center-field prospect Jordan Schafer, and he didn't cost the Braves a top prospect. From the A's standpoint, they weren't going to win this year or re-sign Kotsay afterward, so picking up a couple of arms for him makes sense."

by Smoltzs Beard on Jan 16, 2008 9:05 AM EST   0 recs

Thank you
Smoltz's Beard, for somewhat validating what I've been saying all along.

by jjhoosby on Jan 16, 2008 9:27 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Baseball America is poop
Did they really say it didn't cost the braves a top prospect?? Really? Joey is the definition of a top prospect....hmmm maybe they meant richmond, i hope they meant richmond..baseball america is poop

by bravos408 on Jan 16, 2008 1:37 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Braves408
Who are you?  The head of the Joey Devine fan club?  j/k  No, Devine was not a top prospect; Saltalamacchia, Andrus, etc are/were top prospects.

by jjhoosby on Jan 16, 2008 2:27 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Bravos408
Here's my rebuttal about Devine being in the Top Ten Prospects... He's a PROSPECT!!!  Being a Top Prospect doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you can't adapt in the Bigs.  Check this out from Baseball America, it's the Braves past Top Prospect by year:

1998 Bruce Chen lhp
1999 Bruce Chen lhp
2000 Rafael Furcal ss
2001 Wilson Betemit ss
2002 Wilson Betemit ss
2003 Adam Wainwright rhp
2004 Andy Marte 3b
2005 Jeff Francoeur of
2006 Andy Marte 3b
2007 Jarrod Saltalamacchia c

Bruce Chen was the #1 prospect 2 years running.  His 10 year MLB record is 35-37 4.63 ERA

Wilson Betemit had the same honor. Where's he at?
Andy Marte didn't earn it in consecutive seasons but he won it twice as well.  Joey Devine never even came close to smelling that top spot, but like I've stated before.... They're just prospects.  

by jjhoosby on Jan 17, 2008 9:27 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

hold on there hold on
We weren't talking about who does or doesn't pan out in the big leagues.... And 19 innings isn't anything, so just scrap it (also he was what 21 or 22 when he broke in? Thats so young. The definition of a prospect includes limited big league service time. And Joey still falls well into that category. He was a top 10 prospect before spring training in 07 and had the best season yet, including successful big league time. So how, after back to back top 10 rankings is he no longer a top prospect? Are you saying you have to be a #1 prospect to be considered a top prospect? because if you are i'd have to disagree there as well. I was under the impression that the difference between a top prospect and the number on prospect is just that...I think if you were to listen to a braves brass member talking about hanson they would say, "he's one of our top prospects" The top 10 prospect list is supposed to be the best of the best. The top ten prospect list is something that people fuss and moan and throw fits about(maybe i exaggerate..i dont know i dont know). How many guys are there in an organization? about 230? 220? something like that. These lists are supposed to identify the top 10. Thats a small number out of a large group. Every time a new list comes out a lot of people start complaining about how their number 8 guy wasn't there, or that this guy was ranked higher than then other..It shows to me, that there really isn't much of a difference in 1-5, and 5-10..If anything you're proving a previous point i was trying to make. And if you're ranked number one, it doesn't necessarily mean you're the best prospect, as displayed by your above list (because prospects are the ones that you expect to succeed at the big league level right?). So i say again, prospect rankings are often stupid and pointless.

by bravos408 on Jan 17, 2008 11:17 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Ok
But aren't your top ten prospects supposed to have the greatest chance for success/survival in The Show?  Then, following that line of logic; your #1 ranked prospect should have the greatest chance of all other prospects, correct?  Then, by proxy, your 10th ranked prospect has the least chance of success/survival than the other top ten prospects, correct? The point I am trying to get across to you is that prospects are prospects!!  They are not Major League proven talent, such as Kotsay.  Say what you want about his time on the DL, but when he is healthy, you know what you're going to get from him.  Not so with prospects, they're a crapshoot.  That's why you hear scouts talk about upside, potential, development, etc.  Most of the time, these guys don't make it to the Show or some do and they have a very humdrum career.  It's a matter of proven talent versus possible talent.  Both teams addressed their needs in this trade, so really it should be a win-win.

by jjhoosby on Jan 17, 2008 1:31 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

none
Yeah According to baseball america they're supposed to have the greatest chance, but very rarely do i even agree with the top 10..Its almost like they're trying to give the new hype guys alittle time in the spotlight to create interest from readers who are interested in guys they don't yet know about (which is how you make money by using new news to replace the old). And also, I never spoke about Kotsay at all, I've never seen him play more than 5 minutes. I'm all for the guy getting a chance, and I've been saying ever since i signed onto this site that guys who are on the fringe of being in the big leagues, or guys that are there already are the most valuable at the time to the organizaion. I am all for the downplay of the prospect status and the prospect lists, I think it turns into a joke more often than not, but people still live for it.. I know its fun for you guys to throw you're top 30 in and see how it ranks up to BA's, but lets be honest, your way of finding out is basically the same at theirs..They just have people who go out and piss the guys off that are doing the radar gun in the stands (or the really cool ones have their own guns), and get a few minutes in with some low end brass to see who's who, who's up and coming. Then they have this huge platform to speak from.
Someones original comment was that joey wasnt a top prospect..thats all that upset me..Actually didn't even upset me, just made me twitch alittle and punch some keys and voila! Here you have my brain on your screen.
The one thing that does get me alittle though is the fact that you say the number one is supposed to have a better shot..ok ok i see, but I'm saying the top 10 in the whole organization is a nice little piece of recognition and it means that you've been considered to be better than 180 other guys or 200 or whatever..but that's it..BA is the one who puts those huge printouts that gives the other 9 guys the little box with a picture, and then the #1 gets a whole page with a sweet action shot..The way I view BA is, just report the news..I don't look at them as the most accurate source available. Reading BA is sometimes listening to Fox news or whatever and them saying how we shouldn't be in iraq..

by bravos408 on Jan 17, 2008 6:38 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

blank
And another thing i've noticed is that when baseball america talks to brass in organizations, they never fail to put in the "front office personnel" disclaimer that makes what they have to say more official.. The thing they don't mention is that the front office personnel says things like that about everyone in their organization. The whole "we see him making an impact at the big league level" Or we see him contributing sometime around 2011..". Its all good and jolly, but if you were to ask about a player not so hyped, they would still say that player is going to help the club and hopes are high..(yes yes some exceptions) but the good clubs tend to stick behind their players. Hype goes a long way in pleasing the masses I think.. they eat that stuff up

by bravos408 on Jan 17, 2008 8:05 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

That was me
I stated that Joey was not a top prospect.  That's just how I feel about prospects and what I saw watching him pitch (AAA and ML).  Look, how many times in the recent history of trades has a minors for majors trade come back and haunt the team that traded the minor?  I assure you that if you present me with 10 instances where the team trading the AAA talent won, I can give you 20-25 instances where the ML talent won.  I'm just very disgruntled with the reception this trade has gotten.  This is a great fit people.  We traded PROSPECTS!  We got MLB proven talent!  How is this hard to understand?  Sorry for any misspellings; I'e been drinking.

by jjhoosby on Jan 17, 2008 11:18 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Proven
Yeah, he's been proven to be on a rapid injury and age fueled decline. That's really all he's proven.

by 17843 on Jan 18, 2008 12:47 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

.n/a
I never said anything about what we got, i never said anything about if i think this trade will pan out for the braves or not.. all i said was I 100 percent disagree with the fact that you said that joey wasn't a top prospect and thats it... everything else you've been saying i basically agree with..You keep going back to the "joey is a prospect" bid, and yeah I know that, I think we all do..but i'll say it again, i think we lost a top prospect in joey devine..I don't know how much of this is you just avoiding what you said, you being confused or you being boozed up..

by bravos408 on Jan 18, 2008 1:20 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

you
you JJhoosby are not right in the head

by bravos408 on Jan 17, 2008 12:25 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Although BA...
...normally seems to take a light-hearted approach when evaluating most trades, I'm willing to give the trade a second chance if BA says that it is acceptable.  I was fully expecting them to bash Wren for this.

But the first time I see Kotsay on the DL, I'll go back to being bitter.

by Smoltzs Beard on Jan 16, 2008 4:44 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

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Let's laugh
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How did we lose that game, c'mon!
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Kotsay Shirts... ARE A GO
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The Future...
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"Chasing Four-Tenths"
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THE Kotsay shirts

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