Money for Nothing

by gondeee on Jan 13, 2008 9:17 PM EST in Trade News Comment 13 comments

For a team that's supposed to be better funded than it's been the last few years, we're certainly acting like we need tons of financial help with the way this Mark Kotsay trade might work out. There's been a lot of flack about the Braves giving up top relief prospect Joey Devine for the aging and injury-prone Kotsay, but that's not all we're getting. We're also getting over $5 million of Kotsay's salary paid for by the A's, and apparently that is the reason that we chose to give up a higher level prospect in exchange for the mediocre centerfielder.

So I'm confused now. What in the hell was all the rhetoric coming out of the Braves organization late last year about the team being "flush" with cash. Now we're trading away a better player than we need to in exchange for cash!

One thing that has been discussed exhaustively throughout the winter is whether or not some combination of Blanco or Anderson could hold down the centerfield job; with the general consensus from TC readers and from other Braves sites around the net being, "yes, they can." Why then are we sacrificing Devine at this point in the off-season (and possibly another minor leaguer, heaven forbid) for an injury-prone player coming off three seasons of continuous decline?

I've liked every one of Frank Wren's moves thus far this off-season, but this one really makes me scratch my head, wonder why they made it, then yell really loud, WHY!

If we're actually giving up a better prospect in Devine (and perhaps another prospect) in exchange for Kotsay and CASH, then perhaps us Braves fans and all the beat writers around the team truly have no idea what the financial situation of the team is - and it must be worst than we think. Otherwise, why require cash back in the trade?

Or maybe we, the internet pundits, are just not viewing Kotsay the way we should be. All the Braves players think he's a solid, proven performer. Maybe the Braves think the surgery he had last year to remove a herniated disk will put Kotsay's injury problems behind him. But that's an amazingly large gamble; one that didn't workout last year with Mike Gonzalez.

As of right now I'm not terribly thrilled by this trade, and perhaps even a little distraught. This seems like a bit of a desperate move to get someone, anyone with experience and not have to pay a lot for him. Then again, we could be getting the second coming of Luis Gonzalez and Wren will look like a genius at the end of the year, but somehow I doubt it.

And we didn't even get any chicks for free!

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hmm

I think Kotsay will do just fine. He can't possibly be any worse than C.Wilson and Langerhans combined... gulp... can he??

by RehabReject on Jan 13, 2008 9:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I sure hope so

Considering they combined for 130 plate appearances and were still worth -1.3 wins, I hope Bobby has a short leash with Kotsay when it becomes apparent he's little more than a .260/.300/.375 player at this stage of his career. Of course, he won't.

Anyway, this is a stupid move on the Braves's part. Mostly because we've now given up two good middle relievers to acquire a young 4th outfielder and an old 4th outfielder this offseason. Those two moves have now made our club worse than it was and resulted in us paying more for these players. Our bullpen was a strength at the beginning of the offseason, now it's marginal at best in my opinion. Our center field spot was weak at the beginning of the offseason, now it's still weak, we'll just have more guys milling around out there during spring training.

We lose:
Villarreal (signed for '08/'09 at 1 million and 1.6 million)
Devine (signed for 400,000)
prospect

We gain:
Anderson (signed for 400,000)
Kotsay (we're on the hook for 2 million)

So, we dumped Oscar because we couldn't afford him ($2.6 million for two seasons at his peak) and got a 4th outfielder in return (saving $600,000 in 2008) and then went out and traded another righty reliever for another 4th outfielder who we will spend $2,000,000 on in 2008. All told, we'll be spending $1,000,000 more two weaken our bullpen and maybe get a .275/.332/.386 and 9.8 VORP out of Kotsay (his 2006 line).

Ridiculous.

by 17843 on Jan 13, 2008 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i dont think kotsay is the issue with this trade

we gave sturtze almost a million last year, and how much to craig wilson? if he doesn't pan out, you cut him and play the rookies, it certainly doesn't hurt the team to have him around

the problem with the trade is giving up a valuable piece for a guy who had almost zero trade value, as you pointed out we basically sold 6 years of joey devine for a few million bucks

by abravesfan on Jan 13, 2008 10:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Kotsay trade

Maybe we are making payroll room for a Teixeira contract extension. Also, there is no need to rush Schafer or Blanco. I understand that Anderson played some games at the ML level last year, but who would be his back up? What about the fact that Kotsay is a veteran presence in a young outfield. Or the fact that Kotsay, a veteran, and Schafer, a rookie, are both lefty hitting outfielders. There are many reasons this trade was made; just try to look at it objectively. I'm going to trhow this in there as well... I just don't see Joey Devine panning out as a ML pitcher. He was screwed the moment he gave up those two grand slams in his first two appearances. That's a little much for a young pitcher to recover from in his first two appearances.

by jjhoosby on Jan 14, 2008 8:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

One more thing

I just want to point out (and I bet I'm not the first) that Devine and Villareal were both out of options. Beyond that both performed fairly inconsistently in their time in the show. Granted, Devine only had a few cups of coffee and Villareal had several seasons, but both looked like a mess on more occasions than I'd want in my pen. I'm betting the issue was not that either was dumped for salary constraints, but they were dumped because we could get something useful for a piece that was so easily replaced. Look at it this way. Now that the two are gone we have 2 spots to fill with better performers or a combination of rookies that might unearth a gem.

Burning Brave

by torchy on Jan 14, 2008 9:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Devine had an option

According to Wren, via DOB, Devine has one option left.

by gondeee on Jan 14, 2008 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rebuilding to come?

I wonder if after this year, we do what Oakland is doing and rebuild. This could be Cox's last year and who's to say JS won't follow. If we can't resign Tex, I'm wondering if we don't throw in the towel. All of our stars are aged (Chipper & Smoltz) and our ace Hudson will only have 1 year left.Potentially, this could happen at the end of 08.

Smoltz - If he pitches 200in, he can get his 09 option. However if he is old and hurt, he might retire.

Glavine - Depending on his year, but will probably retire.

Chipper - Has an 09 option, but if he has another injury plagued season, he mentioned he might retire.

Hudson - Our future ace, signed through 09 with a 2010 option. Do we pull a beane move and trade him for a lot of prospects? $13m and a $12m option is a good price if he can pitch like he did last year.

Teixeira - Granted some money will be off the books, but if we cannot convince him to stay this might be the kicker.

I think this Kotsay trade was made for the "Win Now" mode. It has to have been. This trade would not make sense. I have feeling the front office wants to resign Tex, but knows it will be hard. Since you have him now, why not make that one last push with all the old farts and improve were needed.

by surge on Jan 14, 2008 9:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Win Now

There's no good rationale for this.
Win Now: He won't win now, and the way he's been declining these past few years, could very well actively hinder the team's chances. If this is their rationale for the trade, they've done a terrible job with their research.
Save Money: makes no sense, because even if they're only paying him $2 million, as has been rumored, that's still at least a million more than they'd pay Blanco or Anderson, both of whom could probably do a better job in CF.
"Veteran Leadership": This is a phrase used to describe an old player who doesn't have much "talent" or "ability."
Frank Wren is not a very good GM: this is the only rationale I can really think of for this trade.

by drdonkeypunch on Jan 14, 2008 10:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

observe the market

there isnt another centerfielder that meets our needs - shorterm. Kotsay is the only available player. I dont think enough credit has been given to him as a player, granted yes he is injury prone. But remember JD Drew? He had a healthy sesaon in Atlanta at it worked out great for us (albeit for only a year). He gives our young outfield the veteran presence that Andruw was, and can pretty much tutor Schaffer if he gets called up midseason. At the very least, we have a decent hitter in the 8-hole - who can drive in 50-60 runs and hit 15 homers (inadition to sound defense). Thats not bad in my book. Wren knows what he is doing.

by darthspiderman on Jan 14, 2008 11:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Not as bad as it may look

I'm not a huge Kotsay guy, but I'm not the least bit surprised he ended up in Atlanta. Yeah it sucks giving up Devine, a guy I think might do something. But I'm not getting paid the big bucks. Bobby has seen something over the years he doesn't like and with him being out of options, well........ And I completely disagree with the earlier post that the bullpen is in worse shape. Villareal and Devine, IF they both made the team out of spring training were looking like the #11-12 pitchers.
One year of a solid defender with a decent bat when healthy, batting 8th no less, isn't so bad.
It may blow up. Devine may surface as Oaklands future closer, Kotsay may get hurt, again, but at least they did something. And it wasn't something foolish like giving Cameron, Rowand, Patterson, etc big money.

by NorCalAtlFan on Jan 14, 2008 11:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

agreed completely

our bullpen is in good shape. and when gonzalez comes back it'll only be better. we dealt from a position of strength, and over the past 2 seasons we have been stockpiling bullpen help. the kotsay deal gets a solid 'B' in my book. Devine wont be the A's closer just yet(if ever). Not while Huston street still dons the green and gold - but observing the Oakland pattern of trade this year, I woulfnt be surprised if Beane trades him for more minor league depth. It would probaby happen July 31 though, if Devine or Duscherer can prove that they can handle the job.

by darthspiderman on Jan 14, 2008 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs