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Sometimes it's the Trades they don't Make

If it still seems like we traded every prospect we had away at the trading deadline, think again and take a look at the middle of the Braves infield. There was talk, intense talk apparently, right before the July 31st trade deadline about dealing away some prospects for Reds starter Bronson Arroyo. One of the prospects mentioned to be included in the deal was Braves shortstop Yunel Escobar.

After seeing the steady and dependable Edgar Renteria go down in just the second game after the trade deadline, the Braves had to turn to a backup to hold down the shortstop position until he was ready to return. That's when the trade the Braves didn't make became possibly as important of a non-move as the other moves the team made at the trade deadline.

Imagine the alternatives to what Yuney can do at short. We would have been forced to turn to the weak hitting Chris Woodward, or the even weaker hitting Pete Orr. We may have been forced to push the unproven Brent Lillibridge into action. Instead we were able to replace the .330s hitting Renteria with the .330s hitting Escobar.

It was rumored that our young shortstop was more untouchable than Salty at the deadline. Now we are seeing why that was the case. I wonder if we can attribute this kind of non-move to the genius of John Schuerholz. I'm sure it was tempting for our GM to try and give up whatever it may have taken to get a proven starter (often identified as our biggest need), but he didn't give in to those demands and the reward is someone who can fill the large shoes of Edgar Renteria.

One of the knocks on Escobar has been that he doesn't hit for power, but a quick glance at his stats will tell you that his .414 slugging percentage is higher than the .411 number Saltalamacchia was slugging before he was traded. That .414 is also higher than Edgar Renteria's career .408 slugging percentage. The short version is that while Edgar is an All-Star shortstop (well, he should have been), the drop-off in offensive production will be almost non-existent with Yunel Escobar up the middle. Who knows how long it will continue, but Yunel has shown the ability to adjust and learn quick at the big league level. The future is bright for Atlanta, and he will be a big part of it.

Photo by Tom Goupstate

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And
Jeff Blauser can kiss his A$$.

by themurph on Aug 6, 2007 10:53 AM EDT   0 recs

Great Article
I'm really glad that this article was written because I don't think Yunel gets nearly the respect he deserves for being a wonderful hitter and very competent fielder. Great player and I'm so very glad he wasn't traded, especially for Bronson Arroyo.

by iLukeisamazing on Aug 6, 2007 10:56 AM EDT   0 recs

Yeah...
..I don't understand the knock on "not hitting for power". I mean last time I checked Shortstops are not a power hitting group by and large. I mean you've got your guys that do. But traditionally SS's are not a power hitting group.

by Rain Delay on Aug 6, 2007 11:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

True Rain
When you think about it, there are maybe 2-3 SS's in the majors who are actually hitting with a ton of power. Miguel Tejada has fallen off, A-Rod moved positions, Nomar did too. Furcal doesn't hit for power, neither does Stephen Drew or Michael Young.

I just don't see the "hit for power" criticism either, although I do think Yunel has the ability to hit between 10-15 per year.

by iLukeisamazing on Aug 6, 2007 11:19 AM EDT   0 recs

Just watch him shine
Don't think Yunnie isn't aware that he is going to go "toe-to-toe" with Jose Reyes for the next three games.  He will be looking to strut his stuff on the big stage.  I look for a big series from Yunnie.

In regards to his power, he will grow to that in time.  If you watch his at bats he is almost exclusively "inside-out" to right field, especially with the fastball and away.  He will pull the breaking ball if it is in but as he matures he will add that to his arsenal.  I don't think we are ever going to see 25 homers from him but he can easily rise to 12-15 within three years.  Hey, give me someone who is going to drive in runs with "oppo" doubles any day.  After 30 ABs with runners in scoring position he is hitting .500!!!

by Mike de La Hoz on Aug 6, 2007 12:23 PM EDT   0 recs

.500
Drats, I meant to mention that in the post. I saw that last night and was blown away. Who gives a shit about power if you're hitting .500 with runners on base.

by gondeee on Aug 6, 2007 2:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Gondee, I told you . . .
Remember back in spring training I told you that this guy is the real deal, well I was right and you took more of a wait and see attitude.  Yunel is the future and we are getting a glimpse now!

by los angeles braves fan on Aug 6, 2007 12:49 PM EDT   0 recs

Wait and see
We waited and we saw and now I'm a believer. We were both right.

by gondeee on Aug 6, 2007 2:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Question for everyone:
Who would yall rather have at SS in the Future? Escobar OR Lillibridge? My vote is Escobar!
braves#1

by rockybull on Aug 6, 2007 3:04 PM EDT   0 recs

Curb Your Enthusiasm!
Let me just say that I have to push back hard as the devil's advocate here because I truly believe that people are getting carried away with their love of Yunel Escobar (shades of Francouer's rookie season) and that, while I too have high hopes for him, I also believe that we should be reasonable in our praise.  

First of all, Yunel and Edgar do have similar AVG, but Rents has him beat by over 100 points in OPS.  Sure, it's not as big of a drop-off as many casual followers of the Braves might assume, but it's not like nothing is lost with Renteria on the shelf.

Also, I can't believe that people were hammering me for critisizing Salty's stats because of the small sample size and yet lend credence to 30 AB's worth of results!  Yes, it's great that he's been so effective under those circumstances thus far, but he's not likely to keep that up.  

Moreover, there are 10 SS that have double-digit HR totals and 14 qualifying regulars that have posted better SLG than Yunel.  More specifically, I'd mention Hanley Ramirez, Jimmy Rollins and J.J. Hardy as viable examples of powerful SS.  That said, Yunel is about average for his position power-wise, so it's really not as though it's a negative trait and his other skills more than make up for it.  Oh, and his power won't improve dramatically in the future seeing as he's already in his mid-20s.  

As for the future SS in Atlanta, both Yunel and Lilli would be fine choices, but they have other positions (3B and CF respectively) that they might be called upon to fill.  In the end, that decision will come down to the totality of the Braves needs and not some head-to-head battle between both fine prospects.

All in all, I'm glad that we had the depth at SS to cover Rent's absence, but I won't credit Schuerholz for maintaining that.  He tried to deal him to Chicago for Garland and his cherished back-up to Cincy for Arroyo, but was turned down both times.  I'm not sure that the drop-off from Yunel to Orr/Woodward wouldn't be offset by the bump up from our 5th starters to Arroyo, either.  

Personally, I believe that Yunel is a key piece to our future puzzle and present hopes, so I'm glad that we kept him in the fold.  That said, I'm not so sure that it's as big of a deal as it's being made out to be here.

Come check out my blog 52 Card Pick-up and let me know what you think!

by ejruiz on Aug 6, 2007 3:41 PM EDT   0 recs

I agree
With Ej. Yunel has been great and has been exactly what his minor league comps indicated he would be. He may never get better than what he is right now, but what he is right now is an excellent utility type guy which is something every team needs. If i had my choice between him and lillibridge I would take Lill at this point because he has more speed and appears at this point to have more power (though at time i am not sure his power will transfer to the pros) and much more speed. Escobar isn't going to develop speed.

Do i think escobar is a good player? You bet. Do i think he is the long term answer at short? Nope. But he definitely has a place on the team.

.....Matt

by yondaime4 on Aug 6, 2007 4:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Where do you get?
...30 At Bats? Not that I'm not going to deny small sample size. To date Escobar has had 157 at bats. Now if you're just looking at SS AB..well thats kinda silly don't you think?

I mean if you're going to quote at bats, it should be all of them. For the life of me I can't figure out why you're breaking it down to position splits.

by Rain Delay on Aug 6, 2007 4:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He means
30 at bats with RISP. Escobar is 15-for-30 in that situation. Of course, small sample or not, that's damn good!

by gondeee on Aug 6, 2007 5:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh, gotcha..
..must have missed that some where. lol

by Rain Delay on Aug 6, 2007 5:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Who here thinks that
Renteria is getting shipped off in the offseason for a starting pitcher?  I see it definitely happening.  I see us revisiting the Jon Garland rumors or using him as a centerpiece to get someone like Noah Lowry.

by Something Profound on Aug 6, 2007 4:09 PM EDT   0 recs

Hmm...
...am I the only one who isn't completely sold on Escobar?  He's definetly grown on me (the at-bat where he fouled off about a dozen pitches and then stroked the ball to the opposite field really opened my eyes), but I guess I have to attribue it to the immense reseach I did about Andrus.

Where I stand right now, I am 100% against trading Edgar...but depending on how the next two weeks go I might change my mind.

by Smoltzs Beard on Aug 6, 2007 6:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

me too
I am sold that he can be a good player but to call him a stud is a bit insane. I guess every team does it with their young players but to me, that label is for guys like Braun, Gallardo, Upton. Those guys are going to be stars and all-stars down the road. Escobar just isn't that type of player.

by was385 on Aug 6, 2007 7:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh, no....
you misunderstand me...I don't think Escobar will be a stud along the likes of Braun and Upton.  I do think, however, that he will be serviceable, enough so where we can trade Renteria for proven pitching talent.

As a matter of fact, I would personally rather trade Escobar over Renteria, but I don't think that will happen, due to signability and controllability.  Simply put, Renteria makes a whole lot more money than Escobar, and with that money being shipped elsewhere we can invest more in that pitcher (and with Garland making $10 mil a year, we'll need the relief).  Not that I don't think Renteria is a helluva bargain at his price, either.  He's worth every bit of his contract.  Its just that we have a cheaper replacement in Escobar, where the loss in productivity vs. Renteria is made up for in cost (which can be spun towards our most glaring hole: SP).

And this is a bit premature, anyways; my supposition was that if Escobar continues on his pace for the rest of the year, then we have a much better feel for his abilities.  He'll more than likely have gone through a cold spell.  We can see how he handles adversity.  Being able to judge him over these last 50 games of the season will paint a much clearer picture whether we can trade such a proven commodity like Renteria and place Escobar in his stead.  However, I think that if Escobar keeps doing what he's doing, Renteria will be shipped off for more starting pitching.  But I agree on one thing: its gonna be a very interesting decision by Schuerholz, because he can't keep all three (Renteria, Johnson, and Escobar) on the team with two playing and the other rotting on the bench.

by Something Profound on Aug 6, 2007 8:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Kelly Johnson.
This kid should be untouchable at this point.  His numbers are, for the most part, amazing considering the context and it's worth seeing if he can develop some consistency, if not improve further.
Come check out my blog 52 Card Pick-up and let me know what you think!

by ejruiz on Aug 6, 2007 11:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed...
...while it has declined, very slightly mind you, his ability to distinguish balls and strikes is incredible.  At the beginning of the year I remember watching him work the plate and it looked like Chipper was up there.  His plate discipline is well above average, and he could definetly be a 20/20 player in the future.

His fielding still needs work, but considering this is his first year at 2B you have to believe it will.

by Smoltzs Beard on Aug 7, 2007 12:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Lowry
Would be nice. Who here thinks mike hampton will be useful next season?
.....Matt

by yondaime4 on Aug 6, 2007 4:23 PM EDT   0 recs

/sound of crickets chirping
I hope he'll be useful (damn well better be), but it's really hard to imagine at this point.

by Velcro Vernacular on Aug 6, 2007 4:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hampton
(offtopic)
boy, I had high hopes for him when he came here and I really wanted him to succeed...but he can't stay healthy, and I'm thinking that if he comes back to the rotation then JS will see that as a bonus, rather than an expected outcome.  Still, all in all, he's a damn good 5th starter (if he comes back from injury alright).

Hudson
Smoltz
Someone traded for Renteria/Hampton if he wows in ST
James
Rookie competition in ST/Hampton if he is flat before season starts.

That rotation has some good veteran leadership there, and James, if he develops that slider, will be an excellent 4th.

by Something Profound on Aug 6, 2007 5:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Something Profound
I think Escobar will be traded for a pitcher also!!! Maybe him and somebody else for Vazques!!! No way the Giants trade Noah Lowry for Renteria!!! Maybe Lillibridge and others for Lowry!!! The Giants are gonna look for players in their EARLY 20's for Lowry!!! I think we may could get Joe Blanton from the A's for Renteria!!! They need a SS and they are ALWAYS trying to win, and we could pay some of his salary for this year and pay some on the option for 09 if the A's pick it up!!! Win Win for both teams!!!
braves#1

by rockybull on Aug 6, 2007 4:29 PM EDT   0 recs

My bad I mean
pay some for next year and the option for 09!!!
braves#1

by rockybull on Aug 6, 2007 4:31 PM EDT   0 recs

Freddy Sanchez
He sees like Freddy Sanchez with less power and a better glove. Is he a good player capable of starting? Yes. Is he someone that is going to be a star? No. Escobar is going to be just about average offensively. This hype about him from Braves fans is almost as bad as Mets fans when talking about Paul Lo Duca, who compares very well to Escobar.

In the long run, Brent Lillibridge has more upside but is obviously riskier since we don't know what he can do in the majors. Escobar isn't he type of player that will never have any competition for the job so Lillibridge could come in if Escobar is starting and take that job away.

by was385 on Aug 6, 2007 4:51 PM EDT   0 recs

was385
Freddy Sanchez made the All Star game this season and won the Batting Title last year!!! Now that is pretty damn good!!!
braves#1

by rockybull on Aug 6, 2007 5:08 PM EDT   0 recs

yet
he is still considered average at best offensively. Many fans seem to get that it is not all about your average. And I am using this year as a judge not last year. Heck, Mark Redman was an all star last year, how did that work out for us?

by was385 on Aug 6, 2007 5:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Will and EJ
My original post was in reference to Yuney being an above average "replacement" to Renteria. I think we may see some of his faults exposed as he plays more, but he started at second for several weeks earlier in the year. During that time the league adjusted to him and he adjusted back. To me that proves he's better at this stage of MLB experience than Francoeur, who didn't adjust his rookie year after the league adjusted to him.

We can't possibly know what Lillibridge can do at a MLB level yet. Now, I'd like to see what he can do, and I hope they call him up when they send Devine down (again) on Tuesday.

As for Yuney, there's a lot to be said for what a player does in key situations - those kinds of players come in real handy in the postseason (Blauser, Lemke, Cabrera, etc.).

by gondeee on Aug 6, 2007 5:20 PM EDT   0 recs

In Lemke...
...we trust.

by Smoltzs Beard on Aug 6, 2007 6:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

was385
So you are saying that Sanchez did not even deserve to be in the ALL Star game the year he won the Batting title? Well its not ALL about the power either!!!
braves#1

by rockybull on Aug 6, 2007 5:26 PM EDT   0 recs

no
I am saying this year he didn't deserve to be there.

by was385 on Aug 6, 2007 5:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

was385
Dont even compare Sanchez to Redman!!! At least Sanchez did SOMETHING Better than anyone else in his league did!!!
braves#1

by rockybull on Aug 6, 2007 5:28 PM EDT   0 recs

No love for Francoeur???
Look at him now!  Imagine if he keeps getting better and better.  
My goodness.

by secondbass on Aug 6, 2007 5:58 PM EDT   0 recs

I think
he'll be able to put the power and hitting ability together into a very nice package in the next couple years.

by was385 on Aug 6, 2007 6:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I should clarify
I did say that Frenchy couldn't adjust after the league adjusted to him his rookie year, and I stand by that. I think he spent much of last year struggling to adjust as well, but this year he has clicked and is making some great adjustments. His OPS is now .800 and I think it's on the plus side of .800 to stay. I really like what Frenchy has done this year, but Escobar is making those kinds of adjustments in his first year.

by gondeee on Aug 6, 2007 6:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yunel
This is funny. I really can't believe there are people bagging on Yunel when he is batting .500 with RISP and only getting a start every 3rd or 4th day... how in heaven's name do you hate on that?

That's rare, and it's extremely good for us, especially this year.

Also, on power... of all the regular SS's in the league, there are only 10 with more than 10 HRs in MLB. That includes Jimmy Rollins (a statistical anomaly who's riding an early season power surge), JJ Hardy (another anamoly) and Edgar himself.

If they all finish out on this path, there may be 15-18 in MLB with more than 10 HRs, a far cry from the supposed power surge spoken of above.

by iLukeisamazing on Aug 6, 2007 6:11 PM EDT   0 recs

Yunel, Lilli and Rents
Never in my first comment did I say that I don't expect Escobar to be successful or anything else along those lines.  Rather, I highlighted those things that were being overlooked and exposed some others that I feel were being overblown.  Somehow we went from liking a guy to labeling him a savior and/or calling him great.

Personally, I expect him to settle in at about a .310/.365/.435 line, which is excellent for a SS; those figures would put him near the top of the second tier of players at his position!  His glove and arm are apparently plus tools, but his speed and power are average.  His contact is obviously a plus as well.  That said, I still like Lillibridge in the long term.

Lilli has a similar career minor league line (including the drop-off in AA Mississippi) but was younger than Yunel was at every level.  He also adds the element of speed and has displayed better power at higher levels than Escobar.  

As for Rents, I definitely see this team trading him this offseason.  Don't get me wrong, I'm amazed by him more and more as the season goes along, but he will fetch (along with a prospect or two) a very capable starter before next year.  Simply put, he's worth more to us in another uniform than he is in our line-up.  That doesn't diminish what his worth as a player, but rather accentuates it since his trade value is astronomical now.

Come check out my blog 52 Card Pick-up and let me know what you think!

by ejruiz on Aug 6, 2007 7:22 PM EDT   0 recs

I agree
It isn't that I don't like Escobar, but who wouldn't rather have an upgrade if we have one available. Escobar has good contact, decent speed, decent discipline, little power, and good defense which makes him a solid starter, but while Lillibridge may not have as good contact, he draws a ton more walks, has more power, much better speed, a better glove(worse arm). That could easily make him a better player down the road and why not go with the better player?

I also like that Braves fans bash Lo Duca for the exact weaknesses that Escobar has. Lo Duca's numbers seem to be basically what we should expect from Escobar and he plays at a position that expects less offense than Escobar. You can't bash Lo Duca and love Escobar. Just doesn't work.

by was385 on Aug 6, 2007 7:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

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