How will this year end?

by brndn on Jun 6, 2007 11:49 PM EDT

33-27. Much better than last year. But there are a lot of negative issues, obviously. Some of the issues are specific to the first half of this season -- and hopefully will stay that way -- but there are others that are chronic in nature, malignant symptoms of degeneration that have plagued the braves for sometime now. I'll just mention a few; I know everyone on TC is familiar with these, but a refresh:

Chipper is crucial to our offense. When he's out, we're just not as good, even with the so-far-so-good Escobar. We need a power guy with an average that hovers around 300. Most championship teams have at least one, and Andruw hasn't really cut it up to this point (I feel for him, been a tough one so far).
Hampton's absence is awful. One of our big contract guys, yet I now struggle to remember what his wind-up looks like. On a personal level he probably feels terrible for not being able to contribute. I hope that when he returns he still has his stuff.
Given the state of our rotation, Smoltz's arm is absolutely a must for us to win. But that shoulder situation isn't looking too promising. Those types of injuries don't usually just go away after taking a few days off. I know that he is sort of acting like it shouldn't be a big deal, but these guys always do that out of love of competition. Maybe it really isn't a big deal. We'll see.

My question -- and it really is a question, as I haven't completely decided on what I feel about it yet -- is whether or not this is our potential championship year, the year to make a blockbuster market-place decision in order to make a run for the world series? I just don't know if I want to see us pull a "Yankees" and trade the farm for some old washed-up douche or someone with one year remaining on their contract and a boras/wannabe-boras lurking in the background. I'd rather see us continue a winning tradition for the next 10 years than win this year but lose the next 10 due to lack of farm talent. In other words, when/if we do make the big trade this season, I hope it's not only for the best interest of this year, but for the future as well. I want someone who will assimilate themselves to the team, both contract-wise as well as psychologically, consider himself a brave for sometime into the future -- like Hudson and Renteria have done -- than merely a temporary solution.

This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.

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Great Post, Brndn

Yeah, it's sort of getting to that point of the season where it's time to ask that: What's gonna happen? Well, if history is any indication - with the present roster - nothing too great, frankly. Longtime fans, like many of us, can feel that this team is very similar to last year's team which was, well, bad. We've stitched up some 'pen problems (Thank God Wickman shook off that crazy injury/three game debacle) and that's been a positive but only as compared to what we USED to be like, not what all the other contenders are putting out there. That said, that's really about it. Our lineup is the same, generally speaking. Chipper is seemingly going to miss thirty-plus games a season for the rest of his career, which isn't so great for a lock H of F'er to do. Andruw's struggling and clearly getting nervous about it himself at this point. Francoeur is playing better, which is great to see, and Willie Harris has been fun. The future gives us McCann, Francoeur, Chipper, Kelly Johnson, Tim Hudson... Not bad, but let's be honest: We can all FEEL what's happening. We're losing often after a great start, and we're losing ugly, and it's clear that there are teams that have bigger horses. Injuries blow, but most teams have to deal. We haven't done a spectacular job. The starters bum me out because we can't focus on losing Hampton. There was NO WAY that Cox and Co. being the pros they are, were totally counting on a man who hasn't played in years, really. And if you remember his stuff wasn't great prior to the injury. We could have done better there. And with the way Smotlz and Hudson are wired, the competitors that they are, they are taking on too much. Every single start for them feels like a 'stop' and that's too much to ask. I say trade a little of the future for something. Times have changed and we need help now. I think Schilling once said something like "The team who gets the most starts out of their starting five gets to the postseason. Period" He's right. And we need to do something big and exciting there. Anyway, I'll shut up for now. Later.

by finchy on Jun 7, 2007 4:41 PM EDT reply actions

Agreed

your statement, "We can all FEEL what's happening", hits home. even when we take a series from the mets, the pleasure only lasts as long as it takes to get towards the back end of our rotation; lately we've even seen hudson come back to earth, and personally i've been worrying before each smoltz start that he's on his way to the DL.

we definitely need to make a deal for our rotation. but the other worry i have is over this feeling that salty is going to be a superstar, and possibly escobar as well. i just hope we don't regret too much a few years from now.

by brndn on Jun 7, 2007 6:55 PM EDT reply actions

Valid Concerns.

I think calling Helton a "washed-up old douche" and fearing that Buehrle's agent is "a Boras/wannabe-Boras lurking in the background" is a bit much, but I get your point.

[**I realize that you may not have been refering to them specifically, so it's more poking fun at my own ideas - I've been calling for the Braves to acquire both, if possible - than trying to put words/names into your mouth**]

Look, I'm not saying sell the future for one shot at glory, I'm just intimating that there are other uses for the farm system other than simply building players for your major league team. The truth is that we don't need the redundancy that now exists at positions like SS and C, for instance. Salty has more value to us as a trading chip than he does at 1B because the context of his position magnifies his abilities. We now have Escobar, Campbell and Van Pope lined up at 3B (2B seems like Kelly's for the next few years) and Rents, Lillibridge, Andrus and even guys like Diory Hernandez create a logjam at SS. These position are premium and those prospects mean more to other teams at those spots than they do to us in the minors or at other positions. We even have a remarkable depth of pitching talent that we can't expect to use all at once.

In other words, we have the ammo to trade for something big without selling the farm and we can certainly refrain from unnecessary gambles, as is evidenced by our history. You call being consistent also-rans "excellence" (I call it very good and am satisfied), but true excellence is measured in championships... and not the division kind. In all honesty, as presently constituted, we'd have a hard time eeking out a Wildcard birth and praying for rain every third game in the playoffs this year.

by ejruiz on Jun 7, 2007 7:58 PM EDT reply actions

i'm with ya

i'm prepared to see us make some big moves, no problem with that. my only concern is that our specific problems are shared by a lot of other teams (starting pitching being arguably the greatest), which means the value of some of these big-time guys might equal much more than just one big prospect. i do know, however, that it's unlikely Schuerholz would make an unnecessary gamble, as you pointed out. so i'll just sit back and watch him work his magic. he's the genius in baseball management, not me.

your definition of excellence is no different than mine. i would say that excellence is both the ability to have winning seasons year after year as well as picking up a few world championships along the way, the former being equally as difficult as the latter. but i never said anything about what it is to be excellent in baseball. i've only expressed that i am willing to be patient for it.

and i agree, the wild card is starting to look tougher and tougher, despite our competitive record.

by brndn on Jun 7, 2007 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Interesting ejruiz and brndn

I have faith in Schuerholz but it's waning slightly in recent years. The closer debacle last year - that was addressed at a snails pace after we literally blew 20 + saves was handled terribly by him. Wickman was too little too late. Actually, just too late. Wickman has performed admirably. It would have been nice to have Gonzalez and Wickman down the stretch - even if only to trade Wickman for a starter or a bat down the stretch, who knows. I'm not very smart in those areas. I do know, though, that the presence of the Wild Card - which is brilliant - has changed the game. Teams are more committed to win deeper into the season and when teams used to throw the towel in by the break and deal great players, it isn't as much the case anymore. Again with the feeling of being a Brave fan... Landing into the post-season, and not even being competitive. At all. Feeling like the batters are swinging up hill, all waiting for someone to hit one out, no rallies, no fire. I'm sick of that feeling. I really am. We're five games above five hundred now. A few weeks ago we were twelve or whatever. (Tough loss last night but I don't mind losing that way, to a great pitching performance) Ejruiz makes great points about the log-jam at prime-positions. I say make a deal sooner than later for McCann or Salty. Sounds extreme but why not? I'm really not very versed in our farm system, it seems some of you are. The starters that are brought up seem not-so-great. I know the team is doing the best they can right now, and I've learned over the years that Bobby C. and Co. see exactly what we see. They just seem powerless. An aside: The Mets lose five in a row? Weird. They're not built to lose five in a row but I ain't complaining. The irony is that Philly is turning out to be scary. I kind of knew that would happen. Cheers, all.

by finchy on Jun 8, 2007 11:09 AM EDT reply actions

err...

sorry about that, second time i accidentally failed to reply directly to your comment. i'll get it right next time.

by brndn on Jun 8, 2007 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions

good points

it has been both tough and really great to be a braves fan, all wrapped up in the same bundle of passion. i'm looking forward to a good deal this year, the team needs a boost.

the mets losing streak.. yeah, wow. they could have really run away with it. too bad much of it is owed to the phillies.

by brndn on Jun 8, 2007 12:24 PM EDT reply actions

New owners?

I realize the new owners want to stay out of the way of braves management but is the way they want their first season to go? Good April and that's it? I would love to hear the conversation with John S. about trading to save this season. The Braves need that spark that a big trade usually brings them. But a what price is a good question that you all have discussed. The team has big holes and nothing to fill them in with.

by los angeles braves fan on Jun 8, 2007 4:41 PM EDT reply actions

yeah...

we definitely need a spark, especially in our starting pitching. if we end up dealing salty, then maybe moving chipper to first base would be worth trying out (as many folks have suggested), leaving escobar at third. the good news from yesterday's game is that chuck james seems to have settled down into a bit of a groove, much like what we saw from him last year.

by brndn on Jun 8, 2007 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions

This Is Nice.

I have to admit, this has been the most pleasant blogging conversation I've had with a group of fans in a good, long while; cheers to that! And now, back to baseball...

The only quality starting pitchers that have even been whispered in trade rumors are Buehrle and Byrd, both of whom have been doing quite well for themselves in the AL Central. I'm a firm believer in the success of importing solid AL starters such as Arroyo, Lilly, etc. to make a big impact in the NL. Both players have their flaws, but we'd be talking about a #3 in our rotation. The important thing is to push the Redman/Lerew/Cormier slot in the rotation out of existence and give ourselves a decent shot at posting a moster postseason rotation. Smith, Harrison and Reyes, our best long-term SP prospects, won't be ready for primetime until next year, so we really do need at least a stop-gap player at this point.

by ejruiz on Jun 8, 2007 9:25 PM EDT reply actions

it has been

a good conversation. talkingchop is a great site. there aren't many people who keep up with the braves in my area of georgia these days, so this is really one of the few places where i can go to talk to other braves fans, and it's a plus that everyone on here is a good mix of passion and maturity.

either buehrle or byrd would be great at this point; and i don't know if the possibility is still out there, but the giants at one point were probably willing to shop noah lowry.

one last possibility i thought of.. although after i mention it i'm going to proceed with a list of problems. could soriano start? obviously the first problem is the state of our bullpen without soriano. i'm not sure that tyler yates wouldn't completely fold under the pressure of being the setup man. secondly, soriano has had elbow problems in the past, which is just another reason why the bullpen might be the best fit for him. lastly, i began this post with concerns over throwing away the long-term for the short-term, and moving soriano would be doing exactly that if his arm is jeopardized.

by brndn on Jun 9, 2007 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions

Agreed. And Another Bad Loss Tonight.

Perfect example of where we are as a team. 9-1 loss to Chicago at home with a starter who, very plainly, shouldn't be on the roster. You think Andruw, Brian, Edgar, etc. are particularly excited to see Cormier's name on the lineup card? I bet not. Has to be very frustrating for them, too. So now, how many more starts does Cormier get? Same as Redman? Lerew? We always hear that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. We're moving in that direction. I like all of ejruiz ideas for a three spot. Just taking the action of acquiring one of these guys changes the way a whole team feels. How long will our front office wait until doing something? As we've all experienced it doesn't take very long for it all to unravel. Now is the time. Today. A week from now we could be nine out. That's not a stretch either. What does Gondee think about all this? He seems to be closer to the team. He's (or she) is slightly more positive, seemingly, in his posts. I wish I felt the same. I don't mind losing if we're trying to do things differently. I get negative when I see a lot of people sitting back and doing a bunch of wishing and hoping. Tomorrow's another day.

by finchy on Jun 9, 2007 12:10 AM EDT reply actions

another rough one

i guess we just have to be patient. Schuerholz is sort of in a bad position, because feeling as if you have to make a trade ASAP else the season will be lost is a good way to inflate trade values to absurd proportions (e.g., yankees and clemens). he probably had hoped that the braves would at least maintain -- mostly because long-lived surges of losses indicate more than one problem that needs to be addressed.

by brndn on Jun 9, 2007 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions

You're right.

Maybe we're spoiled to some degree. We're above five hundred with a lot more to play. I think, though, that all of the people posting here have a little bit of dread. Here's to staying positive.

by finchy on Jun 9, 2007 12:40 AM EDT reply actions

Listless poor ferformance

You can beat the Braves if you have left handed pitching, they are proving it with every game. Salty looks good but is so young, he hasn't quite learn how to hit at this level. Harris should be in there against lefties somewhere, they should teach him how to play first! AJones is truly the most overrated player in baseball and we are stuck with him for the rest of the year and Thorman will not be with this team next year, he is having a Kolb-like year. I am ready to give some of the young arms a chance now and let them gain some experience under the gun. I am getting close to throwing in the towel for this year if things don't improve.

by los angeles braves fan on Jun 9, 2007 1:28 PM EDT reply actions