Talking Chop: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: Once A Metro covering Red Bull New York!

Hall of Fame Ballot

I took the list from espn.com and decided to list who I would vote for. I put guys into 4 categories: lock, debatable + might deserve it, debatable but probably not, and should be off the ballot. Here is my list:

LOCK
   Goose Gossage
   Dale Murphy (OK, he doesn't belong here but it is a Braves site)

DEBATABLE--MAYBE
   Bert Blyleven
   Andre Dawson
   Tommy John
   Mark McGuire
   Jack Morris
   Tim Raines
   Jim Rice
   Lee Smith

DEBATABLE--PROBABLY NOT
   Harold Baines
   Don Mattingly
   Dale Murphy
   Dave Parker

OFF THE BALLOT
   Brady Anderson
   Rod Beck
   Dave Concepcion
   Shawon Dunston
   Mike Finley
   Travis Fryman
   David Justice
   Chuck Knoblach
   Rob Nen
   Jose Rijo
   Todd Stottlemeyer
   Alan Trammell

Let the debate begin

0 recs  |  Comment 10 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

correction
I should have put Steve Finley on the list instead of Mike Finley. Mike has a better chance at the basketball Hall of Fame than Steve does for baseball. I have a question in regards to my post. How are the people determined that go on the list? Why do some players get on the ballot, but not others?

by MurphyHOF on Dec 31, 2007 9:47 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

wait what
Since when is Dale Murphy a LOCK? I'd put him in the DEBATABLE - PROBABLY NOT category

by bigjoe on Dec 31, 2007 10:29 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

look further down
If you look further down the list I put him there, too. I was simply being an unabashed homer with the Murph.

by MurphyHOF on Jan 1, 2008 9:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My four
Byleven, Gossage, Raines, and the obligatory Dale Murphy vote.

McGwire's numbers are deserving, but I prefer to gain a little perspective on the era before casting a vote in his support.

by 17843 on Jan 1, 2008 1:44 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

dawson
I think Dawson should be in.  Most of us here think Andruw is on his way to the Hall, and Dawson compares very favorably to Jones.  Dawson had a career OPS+ of 119 compared to Jones' 113 (and Dawson's includes his whole decline phase).  Dawson won 8 GG in CF while Jones has won 10 and counting.  And Dawson stole 300+ bases while Andruw is at only 138 and not climbing fast.  Throw in a ROY, an MVP, and two runner-up for MVP and I think Dawson should be a lock.

Then of course Gossaage, Raines, and Blylevin are also locks.

And McGwire needs to wait while we all figure out how to deal with the steroid era.

by B Agate on Jan 1, 2008 2:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

The comparison to Andruw...
isn't really relevant for the Hall. Dawson should be considered on his merits, and Andruw on his, once he retires.

Dawson was an outfielder with a career .323 OBP. He didn't deserve his MVP award, and his splits were brutal: .281/.330/.481 with 207 HR at home, .278/.316/.483 with 231 HR on the road. Plus, once his knees broke down he was a poor defender (although he was quite good defensively when younger).

I think he's relatively close, but I would vote no.

by DwightSmithPinchHits on Jan 2, 2008 4:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

must disagree
The comparison was solely an attempt to put his career in the context of his era.  

As for his splits, a difference of 12 OPS points isn't that great.  For comparison, Chipper's home OPS is 62 points higher than his road OPS.  Are his splits 'brutal'?

I respect your opinion, but I think you undervalue Dawson's offensive production.  Of course, that's what makes these debates so much fun.

by B Agate on Jan 2, 2008 2:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dawson's splits
aren't ridiculous, true. But for an on-the-bubble guy, I think they're important to consider.

One stat doesn't keep him out, but his .323 OBP was only slightly above league average for his era, and for a bashing corner outfielder, that's a big problem in an HOF case.

His peak WARP3 was 53.2, and his career WARP3 was 99.4 -- both quite good, but still a good bit below average for HOF outfielders (63.8 peak and 108.6 career).

His Gold Gloves were mostly unearned, because he was at -15 in FRAA.

I think Dawson is a better candidate than Rice, Murphy, or Parker, and that he's pretty close. But to me he's not quite good enough.

by DwightSmithPinchHits on Jan 2, 2008 4:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

different take
An interesting take can be found here: http://lanaheimangelfan.blogspot.com/2007/12/alltime-outfielder-wins.html

And while his numbers might be slightly below avg for a HOF outfielder, they are pretty good for a HOF CF, which he was for a large portion of his career.

by B Agate on Jan 3, 2008 5:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My ballot
*Blyleven
*Raines
*Gossage
*McGwire
*Trammell

McGwire is tricky, in part due to steroids and in part because his career as a whole doesn't stack up as many seem to think. His peak was incredible, but short. Re: steroids, I think of it as a piece of the puzzle, but not the whole puzzle. I hold it against him, and perhaps it keeps a borderline player out, but I think McGwire makes the cut. It is also somewhat relevant that he was a hero of baseball's 1998 resurgence.

Trammell is borderline, as some question the validity of his defensive numbers. But his career JAWS of 93 is definitely Hall-worthy, and in my opinion makes him one of the top 8-10 or so shortstops of all time.

by DwightSmithPinchHits on Jan 2, 2008 4:41 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Atlanta Braves.
Start posting about the Braves »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

Cbs_fantasy_baseball_promo

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
SB Nation Survey + Chance to donate $500 to a charity of this community's choice
Raymug2_small
Smoltz isn't similar to Eckerlsey. He's better. Much better.
12475953_small
2010 NL East Fan Projections: RPs
Heywardaaa_small
Like College Basketball? Join March Madness at Talking Chop!
12475953_small
2010 NL East Fan Projections: OFs

Recent FanPosts

Small
March Madness Open Thread
Seal_small
Mlb.tv for out of area fans?
Small
Heywardisms
Small
I know it's "only spring training," but is it time to be concerned about McLouth?
Zoidberg-why_small
WTF happened to the Braves on 30 in 30?
Small
When should Heyward play -- Analysis
Heywardaaa_small
Predicting the Braves' 2010 Lineup: #2 Hitter

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SBNation.com Recent Stories

New York Mets starting pitchers Mike Pelfrey, left, Johan Santana, center, and Oliver Perez watch as teammates take part in drills during spring training baseball Saturday, Feb. 27, 2010, in Port St. Lucie, Fla. (AP Photo/Jeff Roberson)

SB Nation's 2010 MLB Previews: New York Mets, The High Cost Of Low Expectations

Washington Nationals pitcher Stephen Strasburg throws during the second inning of  a spring training baseball game against the Detroit Tigers Tuesday, March 9, 2010 in Viera, Fla. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel)

Nationals Send Stephen Strasburg To Double-A Despite Impressive Spring

Seattle Mariners pitcher Cliff Lee speaks during a baseball news conference at Safeco Field in Seattle on Friday, Jan. 22, 2010. Lee was acquired by the Mariners in a trade with the Philadelphia Phillies last December. (AP Photo/John Froschauer) link

Cliff Lee Out With Right Abdominal Strain

More from SBNation.com >


Managers

Gondeee_small gondeee

Authors

My_hair_is_a_bird-257x300_small yondaime4

Dsc01731_small royhobbs

Tc_small cbwilk