Hall of Fame Ballot

by MurphyHOF on Dec 31, 2007 8:50 PM EST Comment 10 comments

I took the list from espn.com and decided to list who I would vote for. I put guys into 4 categories: lock, debatable + might deserve it, debatable but probably not, and should be off the ballot. Here is my list:

LOCK
Goose Gossage
Dale Murphy (OK, he doesn't belong here but it is a Braves site)

DEBATABLE--MAYBE
Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson
Tommy John
Mark McGuire
Jack Morris
Tim Raines
Jim Rice
Lee Smith

DEBATABLE--PROBABLY NOT
Harold Baines
Don Mattingly
Dale Murphy
Dave Parker

OFF THE BALLOT
Brady Anderson
Rod Beck
Dave Concepcion
Shawon Dunston
Mike Finley
Travis Fryman
David Justice
Chuck Knoblach
Rob Nen
Jose Rijo
Todd Stottlemeyer
Alan Trammell

Let the debate begin

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Comments

correction

I should have put Steve Finley on the list instead of Mike Finley. Mike has a better chance at the basketball Hall of Fame than Steve does for baseball. I have a question in regards to my post. How are the people determined that go on the list? Why do some players get on the ballot, but not others?

by MurphyHOF on Dec 31, 2007 9:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

wait what

Since when is Dale Murphy a LOCK? I'd put him in the DEBATABLE - PROBABLY NOT category

by bigjoe on Dec 31, 2007 10:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

look further down

If you look further down the list I put him there, too. I was simply being an unabashed homer with the Murph.

by MurphyHOF on Jan 1, 2008 9:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My four

Byleven, Gossage, Raines, and the obligatory Dale Murphy vote.

McGwire's numbers are deserving, but I prefer to gain a little perspective on the era before casting a vote in his support.

by 17843 on Jan 1, 2008 1:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

dawson

I think Dawson should be in. Most of us here think Andruw is on his way to the Hall, and Dawson compares very favorably to Jones. Dawson had a career OPS+ of 119 compared to Jones' 113 (and Dawson's includes his whole decline phase). Dawson won 8 GG in CF while Jones has won 10 and counting. And Dawson stole 300+ bases while Andruw is at only 138 and not climbing fast. Throw in a ROY, an MVP, and two runner-up for MVP and I think Dawson should be a lock.

Then of course Gossaage, Raines, and Blylevin are also locks.

And McGwire needs to wait while we all figure out how to deal with the steroid era.

by B Agate on Jan 1, 2008 2:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The comparison to Andruw...

isn't really relevant for the Hall. Dawson should be considered on his merits, and Andruw on his, once he retires.

Dawson was an outfielder with a career .323 OBP. He didn't deserve his MVP award, and his splits were brutal: .281/.330/.481 with 207 HR at home, .278/.316/.483 with 231 HR on the road. Plus, once his knees broke down he was a poor defender (although he was quite good defensively when younger).

I think he's relatively close, but I would vote no.

by DwightSmithPinchHits on Jan 2, 2008 4:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

must disagree

The comparison was solely an attempt to put his career in the context of his era.

As for his splits, a difference of 12 OPS points isn't that great. For comparison, Chipper's home OPS is 62 points higher than his road OPS. Are his splits 'brutal'?

I respect your opinion, but I think you undervalue Dawson's offensive production. Of course, that's what makes these debates so much fun.

by B Agate on Jan 2, 2008 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dawson's splits

aren't ridiculous, true. But for an on-the-bubble guy, I think they're important to consider.

One stat doesn't keep him out, but his .323 OBP was only slightly above league average for his era, and for a bashing corner outfielder, that's a big problem in an HOF case.

His peak WARP3 was 53.2, and his career WARP3 was 99.4 -- both quite good, but still a good bit below average for HOF outfielders (63.8 peak and 108.6 career).

His Gold Gloves were mostly unearned, because he was at -15 in FRAA.

I think Dawson is a better candidate than Rice, Murphy, or Parker, and that he's pretty close. But to me he's not quite good enough.

by DwightSmithPinchHits on Jan 2, 2008 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

different take

An interesting take can be found here: http://lanaheimangelfan.blogspot.com/2007/12/alltime-outfielder-wins.html

And while his numbers might be slightly below avg for a HOF outfielder, they are pretty good for a HOF CF, which he was for a large portion of his career.

by B Agate on Jan 3, 2008 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My ballot

*Blyleven
*Raines
*Gossage
*McGwire
*Trammell

McGwire is tricky, in part due to steroids and in part because his career as a whole doesn't stack up as many seem to think. His peak was incredible, but short. Re: steroids, I think of it as a piece of the puzzle, but not the whole puzzle. I hold it against him, and perhaps it keeps a borderline player out, but I think McGwire makes the cut. It is also somewhat relevant that he was a hero of baseball's 1998 resurgence.

Trammell is borderline, as some question the validity of his defensive numbers. But his career JAWS of 93 is definitely Hall-worthy, and in my opinion makes him one of the top 8-10 or so shortstops of all time.

by DwightSmithPinchHits on Jan 2, 2008 4:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs