Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Knicks 90, Raptors 87: "Shump and Lin wouldn't let us lose."

The Cost for Pitching

I think I'm still in shock at the price in prospects that Arizona paid for Dan Haren. Of course that assumes that I'm not also still in shock at what Detroit gave up for Miguel Cabrera and the D-Train. If there is sanity in the silver lining, then these trades might reinforce the notion that the Braves gave up what the market called for and did not overpay when they acquired Mark Teixeira and Ron Mahay. To this day there is a part of me that still thinks we might have given up too much to get the switch-hitting first baseman, but at least these other trades suggest that the cost for the game's top pitchers and hitters is a king's ransom of top prospects.

Just last week I suggested that a trade for one of the top starters rumored to be available would take a whole lot away from our system. With the eventual haul in the Haren trade we can see that the cost was even greater than expected. From Gammons' article I posited that it would take our first, third, and fifth best prospects to begin the trade talks. As it turns out, the cost ended up being Arizona's first, third, seventh, and eighth top prospects (as they are ranked by Baseball America), plus two more bullpen/fringe starter arms. I won't even begin to equate that with what the Braves would likely have had to give up, you can check out our top prospects for yourself and pick which five we would have likely had to send to Oakland.

Like I said, I'm in shock! Arizona got a great pitcher in Haren, but gave up a ton of talent - almost too many good young players for just one guy (I don't consider Conner Robertson anything more than a player thrown in on Oakland's side to make the trade "look" more balanced). This run of trades of young starters we are likely to see continue, reminds me of the last time baseball had a run on young arms. It was the winter of 2004 and Oakland was once again unloading its staff aces. The price we paid back then for Tim Hudson was our top pitching prospect, Dan Meyer, an erratic young hard throwing bullpen arm in Juan Cruz, and the fan favorite Charles Thomas. Really, that was all! What a steal that trade turned out to be. Of course, Meyer got injured and has never been the same, Cruz was shipped out a year later to Arizona after posting a 7.44 ERA in Oakland, and Chucky-T was never really given a chance by the A's, appearing in only 30 games (46 at-bats) and batting .109.

This was a trade in which we gave up only one real prospect, and this was only three years ago. The A's made out a bit better when they traded Mark Mulder two days later in December of 2004, acquiring reliever Kiko Calero, a guy who is now one of their top infield prospects in Daric Barton, and a right-handed starter named Dan Haren. The Cardinals, who acquired Mulder, didn't make out as well, as Mulder declined rapidly after injuries and fatigue caused him to miss the last year and a half.

The third member of the three headed monster in Oakland was Barry Zito. I think we all know that he has fallen flat since signing a ridiculous contract with the Giants last year.

As it turns out we seemed to have gotten the best pitcher out of the group in Oakland that was Hudson, Mulder, and Zito, and we got him without having to give up too much in the way of prospects in return. But it seems the days of hoodwinking a GM with the likes of a Charles Thomas are over. And getting away with sending just one top prospect in return for an established player is a distant memory.

What the Braves have done this year by signing Tom Glavine is to buy time until the young pitching in our system - guys like Hanson, Rohrbough, Locke, and company - are ready for the majors. They also have two interim arms in Jo-Jo Reyes and Jair Jurrjens (the killer J's) who might develop into solid major league rotation regulars. That's two good waves of pitching which should replenish the Atlanta rotation from within, not to mention the anomalies like Charlie Morton who may come along in between those two groups and become contributors. This is what we're going to have to rely on - building from within - as it seems the price for pitching on the trade market might be more than we can afford.

Comment 5 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Off topic...
...I saw on SI that Smoltz was on the Dan Patrick show talking about his take on the Mitchell Report.  Has anyone been able to find a copy of the transcript?

by Smoltzs Beard on Dec 17, 2007 11:58 AM EST reply actions  

My thinking
 Well,  when it comes to trading aces or stud bats, the usual trade is one team trading the one stud ace or bat in exchange for prospects.

When this happens, there are two bounties that will be received.  One is a quality bounty, a good example would be if the twins got Clay Bucholtz and Jacoby Ellsbury for Santana.  The other is the quantity bounty, as Beane got from Arizona.  Very rarely do you get a combination of the both, such as Florida did, getting quality in Maybin and Miller, quantity in the other four guys.  You could say that Texas also got quality and quantity, as they got harrison and Salty, but also got andrus and perez.

The bounty you get is determined by the mindset you have.  If you trade for quantity, usually you are trading for lower level prospects in order to increase the overall depth and quality of your farm system, and you get four or five in return.  This is done by teams who are not really winning at the time, and have come to the conclusion it is better to stockpile for the future than play on just hope in the present.  The two perfect examples of this are the Haren trade and the Teixera trade, as texas and oakland were both in the same position.

If you trade for quality, of course you trade for major league ready prospects who can feel needs for you at the major league level.  The Twins are trying to win with a team over the next 3 or 4 years filled with young players, and thus that is why they want quality instead of quantity.  Same with the marlins.

With this in mind, I like the fact that Beane used Haren to restock the farm instead of Blanton, because he never would have gotten that many players for Blanton.  And, as gammons pointed out, now that Haren is off the market, the price for Blanton rises, so Beane could still get two solid to awesome major league ready prospects for Blanton.

by bravessuperbeast on Dec 17, 2007 1:59 PM EST reply actions  

Concerning the Braves...
I guess my point concerning the Braves on this subject is that the braves never really make quantity trades, we make trades for quality.  That is a great reflection that we already have quantity in place, plenty of lower level players who do very well when compared to other teams' prospects at the same level.  As long as the Braves can keep the lower level quantity that is also full of quality in order, we will be able to trade some of it to get what we need at higher levels, while also developing some of it to help us at higher levels.

by bravessuperbeast on Dec 17, 2007 2:11 PM EST reply actions  

You know...
... I really like what the Braves have been able to do the last few years in terms of acquiring prospects (and not just trading them away). When we traded LaRoche for Gonzalez, we also got a top prospect in Lillibridge. When we traded Renteria we got two prospects in return, one with some major league time and another top prospect for depth. Perhaps if we move Chuck James, we will get not only a major league piece but a prospect as well.

by gondeee on Dec 17, 2007 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

And as a result...
Those trades have lessened the impact of the teixera trade on our farm system.

by bravessuperbeast on Dec 17, 2007 7:46 PM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Atlanta Braves.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Icon2_small
February Off Season/Off Topic II
Small
Our #4 and #5 pitchers
Avatar_small
Talking Chop Free Agent Tracker
Small
The Not So Prestigious TC Fantasy Baseball League (edited)
Kingsizehomer_small
TC Fantasy Baseball Rd 5
791_small
If the Braves ever left Atlanta
Spo_bs_atlantabraves_1006_small
OT (kindof): 2012 Fantasy Baseball Rankings
0d5f240abb4da413f70e6a7067006f9c_small
upcoming season
Small
2012 Minor league staffs
Small
Baseball > Football. George Carlin explains why

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Gondeee_small gondeee

Editors

Heis3_small Scott Coleman

Sid_small SCrebel10

Authors

My_hair_is_a_bird-257x300_small yondaime4

Dsc01731_small royhobbs

Mccann__brian_small cbwilk

Chris_and_harrison_at_braves_game_small Atlanta_Chris

Avatar_small TonyAlmeyda

12475953_small Jacob Peterson

Prado-walk-off-diamondbacks_small moorebraves

Moderators

Ale0p82caaer6rx_braves_patch_3_small HEYJUDE